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Thread: Foreign Involvement in Presidential Elections

  1. #1
    usa us arizona
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    Default Foreign Involvement in Presidential Elections

    I'll assume that almost everyone is aware of the allegations of Russian involvement in the 2016 US Presidential election where the focus was to assist Donald Trump become president. Some (Republicans) are denying that but it's unquestionably true that illegally obtained emails were released to the media that harmed Hillary Clinton to some degree although evidence that the influence was enough to change the election results is non-existent. All we know is that illegal obtained emails that were publically exposed corrupted the 2016 Presidential election to some degree and that all of the US intelligence agencies are claiming that the evidence exists that the Russians were responsible.

    I believe that we can all state that foreign involvement in the domestic process for electing a president is wrong on all levels regardless of whether we believe that the Russians were involved in the 2016 US Presidential Election.

    If that is the belief, and arguably it is for most Americans, then we need to take a minute and think back a little historically.

    July 09, 1996

    WASHINGTON — A team of American political strategists who helped Gov. Pete Wilson with his abortive presidential bid earlier this year said this week that they served as Russian President Boris N. Yeltsin's secret campaign weapon in his comeback win over a Communist challenger.

    And while some Muscovites are debating whether the Americans saved Yeltsin's job or merely provided one voice among many working to revive the Russian president's political chances, the consultants have now emerged to give interviews about how they quietly peddled advice to Yeltsin's 36-year-old daughter and key advisor, Tatyana Dyachenko.

    "I don't have candidates generally who are as responsive as Boris Yeltsin," said George Gorton, who worked for Wilson in 1994 and later ran Wilson's abortive bid for the GOP nomination. "Certainly not Pete Wilson."

    Hired in February through a San Francisco firm with connections in Moscow, Gorton said that the team members never met Yeltsin. Instead, they sent their detailed, unsigned memos to his daughter. "We were told that we were formally retained as advisors to the Yeltsin family."
    http://articles.latimes.com/1996-07-..._boris-yeltsin

    So in 1996 the political team that worked for Republican Gov Pete Wilson went to Russia and through an intermediator, Yeltsin's daughter Tatyana Dyachenko, secretly provided advice to assist Boris Yeltsin win the election. This does not imply that the possible Russian involvement in our election somehow becomes magically acceptable but instead establishes that what the Republican political team did in assisting Boris Yeltsin in 1996 was wrong.

    This is a problem with many of the "positions" the US establishes that are unquestionable correct are compromised because we violate those same position making us hypocrites in he eyes of others.

    "Do as I say, not as I do" has never been a viable policy.
    Why do Republicans oppose things that are clearly CONSTITUTIONAL and support things that are clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

    "Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence." Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
    I'll assume that almost everyone is aware of the allegations of Russian involvement in the 2016 US Presidential election where the focus was to assist Donald Trump become president. Some (Republicans) are denying that but it's unquestionably true that illegally obtained emails were released to the media that harmed Hillary Clinton to some degree although evidence that the influence was enough to change the election results is non-existent. All we know is that illegal obtained emails that were publically exposed corrupted the 2016 Presidential election to some degree and that all of the US intelligence agencies are claiming that the evidence exists that the Russians were responsible.

    I believe that we can all state that foreign involvement in the domestic process for electing a president is wrong on all levels regardless of whether we believe that the Russians were involved in the 2016 US Presidential Election.

    If that is the belief, and arguably it is for most Americans, then we need to take a minute and think back a little historically.


    http://articles.latimes.com/1996-07-..._boris-yeltsin

    So in 1996 the political team that worked for Republican Gov Pete Wilson went to Russia and through an intermediator, Yeltsin's daughter Tatyana Dyachenko, secretly provided advice to assist Boris Yeltsin win the election. This does not imply that the possible Russian involvement in our election somehow becomes magically acceptable but instead establishes that what the Republican political team did in assisting Boris Yeltsin in 1996 was wrong.

    This is a problem with many of the "positions" the US establishes that are unquestionable correct are compromised because we violate those same position making us hypocrites in he eyes of others.

    "Do as I say, not as I do" has never been a viable policy.
    Better tell that to Obama who has no problem involving himself and us in the domestic elections in Israel
    God knows what he's doin'. He wrote this book here.
    An' the book says: "He made us all to be just like him, "
    So...If we're dumb...Then God is dumb...
    (an' maybe even a little ugly on the side)

  3. Default

    Ray McGovern, retired CIA says since ww2 we have interfered in 61 foreign elections. But it is ok for us to do it, but just no one else. For we are entitled as americans. We never put the shoe on the other foot. That is our problem, and our hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is never GOOD, in fact it is BAD. We seem to delight in being BAD. Isn't this typical evil empire behavior? All evil empires have done this of course. While its citizens pay no mind to it. For only our interests matter, yet hardly has our hypocrisy even been in the interest of the average American. But in the interests of our elites. Read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. For MSM will never mention John Perkins.
    "Multiplicity is only apparent, in truth, there is only one mind..." Erwin Schrodinger

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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Mind View Post
    Ray McGovern, retired CIA says since ww2 we have interfered in 61 foreign elections. But it is ok for us to do it, but just no one else. For we are entitled as americans. We never put the shoe on the other foot. That is our problem, and our hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is never GOOD, in fact it is BAD. We seem to delight in being BAD. Isn't this typical evil empire behavior? All evil empires have done this of course. While its citizens pay no mind to it. For only our interests matter, yet hardly has our hypocrisy even been in the interest of the average American. But in the interests of our elites. Read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. For MSM will never mention John Perkins.
    Just as i find it amusing that we get upset that people hack us or spy on us, like we dont do the same
    God knows what he's doin'. He wrote this book here.
    An' the book says: "He made us all to be just like him, "
    So...If we're dumb...Then God is dumb...
    (an' maybe even a little ugly on the side)

  6. #5
    usa us arizona
    Location: Recent Immigrant to Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    Better tell that to Obama who has no problem involving himself and us in the domestic elections in Israel
    I'd be glad to if you can provide link to any direct involvement by the US either by our government or by any of our political parties. It's bad enough that I believe (but can't prove) that there are Americans providing campaign funding to Israeli politicians.

    My biggest concern with Israel from an American perspective is that Donald (ignorant on all subjects) Trump and the GOP are going to flush 68 years of bipartisan foreign policy down the toilet but doing stupid things like moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem that we haven't done because the Annexation of Jerusalem has been rejected by every US president (and the United Nations) or even worse by not exerting the full power of the United States to actually try to get Israel to start removing it's Israeli settlements in the West Bank and E Jerusalem because those settlements are illegal and are classified as war crimes and crimes against humanity under international law.

    When is the United States going to do what right with Israel and for Israel. Only the two-state solution based upon the pre-196u7 Israeli borders ends not just the grounds for hostility by the Palestinians against Israel but it also end the foundation for the hostility by the other Arab and Muslim countries. If Republicans are afraid of the threat Iran represents to Israel then the two-state solution based upon the pre-1967 Israeli borders ENDS that hostility.

    Of course Trump and some of the other potato head Republicans are so ignorant of the issues with Israel that they don't understand the fundamental problem
    Why do Republicans oppose things that are clearly CONSTITUTIONAL and support things that are clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

    "Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence." Thomas Jefferson

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  8. #6
    usa us arizona
    Location: Recent Immigrant to Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penrod View Post
    Just as i find it amusing that we get upset that people hack us or spy on us, like we dont do the same
    You know what's interesting is that I don't find a problem per se with Russia hacking the Democrats email.

    My problem is with the US media that published the illegally obtained emails knowing full well that the publication would corrupt the election. It's one thing if "mud" from both parties is covered in the media but when it's all one-sided then it really does corrupt the election process.
    Why do Republicans oppose things that are clearly CONSTITUTIONAL and support things that are clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

    "Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence." Thomas Jefferson

  9. #7
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    i think foreign involvement in elections is only bad if it is to destabilize weaker countries for money.

    while russia acts in its own interests for money, it did not destabilize America in its involvement of American elections.

    America and Russia also have a special relationship since they are two strong countries where military conflict means mutually assured destruction, so their opinion in our elections is just as important as our opinion in their elections.
    Last edited by liberalminority; Jan 11 2017 at 02:04 PM.
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  10. #8

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    Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

    Donald Trump wasn’t the only presidential candidate whose campaign was boosted by officials of a former Soviet bloc country.

    Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

    A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

    The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.
    “Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites…"

    ― Edmund Burke

  11. Default

    Not only did Democrats get involved in Russian politics in the 1990's they bragged about it. Bill Clinton and Boris Yeltsin were best buds but that was cool back then.

    Last edited by lemmiwinx; Jan 11 2017 at 03:50 PM.

  12. Default

    I wonder why Putin doesn't bring up that information when America mentions Russian interference in our election. I think I remember him referring to it once but that was it.

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