Ohio's CCW: Blood in the streets?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by TOG 6, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    In the run-up to to shall-issue CCW permits in the state of Ohio, we were promised we'd see rivers of blood in the streets and any number of similarly apocalyptic events

    Shall-issue concealed carry became law almost 13 years ago.

    <Looks around>

    Well?
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's the same argument they made in the 80's about Florida.

    There has been no state in which CCW or open carry laws have caused murder or violent crime to go up. If anything, the opposite has happened.
     
  3. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here in Los Angeles, politicians have made it so no citizen may have a CCW. Only politicians get them.
     
  4. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    "Los Angeles County, with a population of 7.4 million adults, had about 500 residents licensed to carry concealed handguns in 2015, equating to about one in every 15,000 adults, state Department of Justice figures show. San Francisco County, with 700,000 adults, had just four."

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article73538112.html
     
  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    CA CCW law: It's up to the sheriff if he issues a permit, correct?
    Do yo have to apply to the sheriff in your county or can you go elsewhere?
    Is the CCW permit issued in one county valid in the other counties?
     
  6. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Are you claiming that anti American Democrats lied to get their anti American agenda pushed through? No ?
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    They presented a fallacious appeal to emotion in an effort to stop the law.
    Not only did did the law pass, their predictions have been proven wrong.
     
  8. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    They are issued by the chiefs of police here in MA, I believe.
     
  9. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Same deal -- you have to apply to the chef where you live?
    Permit good across the entire state?
     
  10. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. I was just reading up on the laws in my state, and I found this to be pretty interesting. Who would have thought MA would be a castle doctrine state. Lol!

    Deadly Force / Castle Doctrine:
    Massachusetts is a Castle Doctrine state and has a stand-your-ground law. Click here for the law.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not sure. Here is the information I could find about it.

    Issuing Authority:
    This is your police chief or state police if you are a resident. If you are not a resident, you will need to contact the Firearms Record Bureau at (617) 660-4780.

    NICS check:

    Permit Valid For:
    Resident &#8211; 6 Years
    Out Of State &#8211; 1 Year

    Processing Time:

    Receive your license within 40 days. If it is denied, you have 90 days to petition the district court for a review. Click here for the Firearm License Review Board Petition.

    Cost:
    Resident LTC fee is $100 for 6 years
    Non-Residents are $100 per year

    The fee for a temporary license is $100



    Requirements:

    Required Documents:
    1. Approved training course given by a Massachusetts state certified instructor within the last year

    2. Completed application
    3. Copy of driver&#8217;s license or ID card
    4. Copy of birth certificate or passport
    5. You will be required to justify your request in writing. Make your request as detailed and specific as possible. Valid reasons for requesting a concealed handgun include personal threats, being in a high-risk profession or routinely carrying large amounts of cash.
    6. Two passport photographs
    7. 2 Fingerprint cards
    8. Proof of residency ( may be a utility or cable bill)
    9. Report from your home state Bureau of Criminal Records listing your arrest record

    10. To receive a Non-Resident LTC you must already possess a permit from your home state
    or a permit from another state
    11. If you&#8217;re a Vermont resident, you must get a letter from the Police Chief in your town attesting to your good character

    Renewal Information:

    Change of Address:
    Change Of Address Notification Form

    Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:

    Automobile carry:
    Unlawfully carrying a firearm in a vehicle, or in one&#8217;s possession
    outside one&#8217;s residence or place of business, without the required license or card, subjects a person to a mandatory minimum sentence of 1 year in jail, or 2 1/2 years in prison. This mandatory sentence does not apply to a person holding a valid card but not the required license.

    A non-resident may possess a rifle or shotgun in Massachusetts:
    1. While hunting and in possession of a valid hunting license.
    2. While on a firing or shooting range.
    3. While traveling in or through Massachusetts if the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and enclosed in a case.
    4. While at a firearms show organized by a &#8220;regularly existing gun collector&#8217;s club or association.&#8221;
    5. If he or she has a license or permit to possess any firearm in his or her home state, if its licensing requirements are as stringent as those of Massachusetts, as indicated by a published list of such states promulgated by the colonel of state police.

    A non-resident United States citizen with a license to carry a handgun issued by his home state may carry a handgun in Massachusetts for the purpose of taking part in a competition or exhibition of an organized group of firearms collectors, or for hunting provided he has a valid hunting license issued by Massachusetts or the state of his destination.

    Places off-limits when carrying:

    Alcohol and Drugs:
    Waiting For Information. As always, alcohol/drugs don&#8217;t mix with firearms. That&#8217;s a pretty simple rule of thumb.

    Deadly Force / Castle Doctrine:
    Massachusetts is a Castle Doctrine state and has a stand-your-ground law. Click here for the law.



    Open Carry:
    Prohibited in most public areas.

    Localities with Varying Laws:

    Forms & Links:
    Mass.gov &#8211; Firearms Forms and Applications
     
  11. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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  12. ChrisL

    ChrisL Well-Known Member

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  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    If those on the left were not known for the arbitrary and capricious restrictions they place on the exercise of rights they don't like, they'd be know for nothing.
     
  14. REALITY CHUCK

    REALITY CHUCK Well-Known Member

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    This month marks three years of shall-issue permits in Illinois. The run-up to the law involved the same claims of blood and bodies everywhere. It seems that the Libs need to hire another advertising agency and lose their old tune. I still haven't seen any blood or bodies.
     
  15. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Since July 29, 2010, Az has had no requirements for concealed carry.. IOW, no permit is needed. You may 'keep & bear arms' as is guaranteed in the Constitution. That was very generous of them, don't you think? :D

    Ironic that most states require permits for this, when in the few that don't, there is no evidence of more crime, or gun violence, as it is euphemistically called.

    In fact, a highway patrolman in Az was just saved by a passerby with a gun, who shot an ambusher who had shot the cop, & was physically assaulting him.
     
  16. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately, LA county does not allow citizens to carry even with a permit from another county. Celebrities and politicians get permits. Gang members don't need permits!
     
  17. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Like i said: I cannot imagine how this survives an Equal Protection challenge.
     
  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very sad.
     
  19. BryanVa

    BryanVa Well-Known Member

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    Yes this is the old common law standard. Both &#8220;stand your ground&#8221; (i.e. justified/no-fault self-defense) and the Castle Doctrine were the common law of England when we broke the connection and declared independence.

    It&#8217;s important to understand that the common law did not die at independence. The common law is based upon centuries of legal precedent. The new states had none of their own. Therefore, and because it was important to maintain a judicial system that already had a great deal of predictability about it each of the 13 colonies, when they became states, passed laws that declared (essentially) that the common law as it existed at the time of independence is the recognized law of the land unless and until the legislature supersedes all or a part of it by statute.

    For example, here is Virginia's statute:

    "The common law of England, insofar as it is not repugnant to the principles of the Bill of Rights and Constitution of this Commonwealth, shall continue in full force within the same, and be the rule of decision, except as altered by the General Assembly."

    So Massachusetts, like Virginia, immediately adopted these common law principles, and once any state does so they remain in force and effect unless and until the legislature passes a law that modifies or abolishes them, or the Courts of that state somehow seize the power to alter them by the gradual changes that can occur over time in case law. In fact, every state save Louisiana has a statute that expressly adopts the English Common Law as the foundation of their legal system. It all stems from that one tree. The several states have branched from it, and in some respects have created their own unique case doctrines in some areas, but the law should be the same in all 49 of these states unless that state legislature has changed the law of self-defense and defense of habitation by statute, or the Courts have encroached upon it in your state over the years.

    The point is these ancient self-defense principles began as the rule and not the exception. They are not new and novel principles, despite the false claims of the anti-gun lobby.

    I am sure that in some states the Courts, by subtle encroachment, have steered the common law away from these principle, for again the old common law was the root of the tree, and each state was free to grow from that base into its own unique direction. And I am sure that in some states foolish legislators have abolished &#8220;stand your ground&#8221; and the &#8220;castle doctrine.&#8221;

    This is why we see in some states the move to reassert these ancient principles. But when we see laws passed to enshrine &#8220;stand your ground&#8221; and the &#8220;castle doctrine&#8221; all we are seeing is a restatement of the common law that so many of our states have lived by since the nation was founded&#8212;and not some new horrific &#8220;right to kill&#8221; power that the anti-gun lobby falsely claims it to be.

    For example, this has been the law of my beloved Virginia since before the state became a state, and it has existed unchanged since that time. Where are all the horror stories that the antis claimed would occur if &#8220;stand your ground&#8221; and/or the &#8220;castle doctrine&#8221; were made into law again?

    Virginia has a more than two century history of proving how false the anti-gun prophets are.
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can carry without any license in Vermont. Gosh, the gun crime there must be off the charts.
     
  21. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Who is determining the "moral Character" of the people judging moral character?
     
  22. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    starting in the 1990s many states started allowing CCW and started with SHALL ISSUE licenses. Each time a state started to liberalize the process,the Brady thugs and other anti gun hysterics started in with the "BLOOD IN THE STREETS" lies. at first, the hysteria could be written off as mere speculation but as more and more states passed these laws, and no such bloodshed took place, the rants of the anti rights coalition snowflakes were seen more and more as lies. The fact is, the BM really has few, if any facts on its side. But we know from history, that facts rarely change the wailing and lamentations of the gun ban movement after all, public safety is only a facade they proffer in order to hide their true motivations.

    so no matter what happens after a state allows liberalized CCW licenses, you can almost guarantee that the ARC will continue to howl about massacres and bloodshed in the street even though they know their dire predictions are lies
     
  23. EggKiller

    EggKiller Well-Known Member

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    Usually people who feel thier opinions outweigh everyone else's which points to a low moral character.
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my experience, some of it with self pro-claimed "mental health experts" on this forum, they're crazier than most.
     
  25. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    35 years ago, I was prescribed anti-depressants. Took them for a year. High school sucks.
    According to some here, I should have never been able to buy a gun and all the guns I have should be confiscated.
     

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