A straightforward question: Why do some of you think Trump is not "legitimate"?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pollycy, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    It is a matter of FACT that Donald Trump was elected to be the next President of the United States according to the processes enumerated in the Constitution of the United States.

    But, some people say that Trump is not a "legitimate" President-Elect.

    Without trying to stilt, color, or manipulate a discussion about this crucially important issue, I would like to simply pose a serious question to the Forum:

    If you honestly believe that Donald Trump is not the legitimately-elected President-Elect, please tell all of us WHY you think that. One condition: please show solid evidence, proven facts, and cite Constitutional processes and precepts exactly. Please do NOT simply post opinions expressing dislike for, or disagreement with President-Elect Trump. You can speculate about what you think Trump might or might not do as President, but bear clearly in mind that at this moment, on the morning of January 17, 2017, Trump has done NOTHING, because he is not the president yet. Thank you.
     
  2. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    OK, me first. In my opinion, it is clear and self-evident that the processes and letter of the law as outlined in the Constitution of the United States was followed exactly in the election of Donald Trump to be the next President of the United States. He election was confirmed by the Electoral College, also as stipulated in the Constitution. Therefore, he is "legitimate".

    As an aside, I suggest that those persons who don't like the Electoral College should mount an effort to amend the Constitution of the United States so that the election process is changed to remove the Electoral College altogether, or, to change its constitutional role. Fair enough?
     
  3. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Because Trump pounced Clinton like a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). They were so cocky and so sure of themselves while they bashed Trump and all his supporters as foolish scumbag racists. Well joke was on them , and it is driving them to scream ,pout, cry , vandalize, criticize , and delegitimize out president. There is nothing more to it then the left are a bunch of immature spoiled brats that didn't get their way . And now they realize that the majority of Americans think they are ridiculous and they are beside themselves. So what would your 5 year old do. Boo hoo until they get their way. Unfortunately for the boo hooers they ran into a solid Trump. Too bad for them.
     
  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    I have no respect for the sleezy charlatan, but he's obviously the legitimate winner of the election.
     
  5. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Who cares what the left thinks? They are now irrelevant.
     
  6. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Because Trump hurt the egos of many on the left who thought this election was in the bag. All of their sources of information said that Trump had no chance, so the only thing that makes sense to them is that Trump "stole" the election from them. They're not able to admit they were wrong, their information was wrong, their sources were wrong, they had a lousy candidate that was out of touch with the American electorate, because they are always right. They are the smartest people in the room. They didn't fail, the system failed. There was thievery going on. But for those things happening, they would have won. They are able to deflect blame onto something else to protect their ideology and "rightness", so that's what they do.
     
  7. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I don't really understand the whole "illegitimate" thing. Trump was eligible to run, and received more electoral votes. Based on the constitution, he is the legitimately elected president.


    I think the people claiming he's illegitimate are almost as bad as birthers :wink:
     
  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Fact: Hillary was clearly winning with her advantage increasing after the debates. After Comey announced the FBI was reopening the investigation, she dropped like a rock and never recovered. The announcement that the FBI found nothing came too late - the Saturday before the election. The timing was highly suspicious at best.

    Trump won but it was a stolen election. Beyond that, Comey made public the investigation of Hillary's emails but didn't release the fact that Trump was under investigation over his ties to Russia -a far greater threat than badly handled emails! This smells very bad and could even rise to the level of a Coup d'état. We will have to see how deep the Trump-Putin connection goes..
     
  9. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Obama's entire 2 terms were considered as illegitimate by many right-wingers and he won by a much larger margin than Trump did.

    Why should we treat Trump any differently?

    There are many asterisks by Trump's new title. The Republicans launched investigations every time someone in the Obama Administration choose strawberry ice cream over vanilla but watch as they try to brush away all of the transgressions of Trump's pro-Russian rule.
     
  10. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Go ask why so many Obama haters considered Obama as not being legitimate! After you get their answer to that question you will then know god answer to the question as to why some people think that trump is not a legitimate question.

    I cannot help you with a personal answer to your question because I believe that Trump is just as legitimate as Obama is and the two of them are just as legitimate as George W. was.
     
  11. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    A better question, directed at those who believe Trump is not the legitimate winner of the election:

    Why do you think your opinion matters?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fallacy: red herring
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
     
  12. Bluebird

    Bluebird Well-Known Member

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    Well, ok I have already stated numerous times on the forum since election day as to why I feel trump is not legitimate,however I cannot prove it & I doubt anyone can at this point-But-----I have had the opportunity being an OBAMA volunteer throughout the years to have had some access to OBAMA's data processing system called "VAN",without going into detail of the process,it is all about what voters have been contacted, how they vote,when they vote--who voted early & how many registered voters are left to vote after early voting in each state, this process is the same for every state--this process has actually been so perfected that we have been able to determine with pin point accuracy many variables----In this election however, this process worked in "ALL" but 3 states----Michigan-Wisconsin & Pennsylvania----mmmmm--doesn't make any difference how many times we run the data, the numbers just don't match with the outcome---
    Like I said, I can't prove that somehow the data was skewed, and if anyone did go in & mess with the numbers they have erased their footprints,(maybe)-
    Then when you have all these expert predictors like 537 for example, that were so far off the mark----
    Then we have a known Russian operative Paul Manifort being hired by trump to be his campaign manager & trump's debt to Russia verrified by trump's son is in my opinion a direct violation of our election laws(collusion) & trump should have been disqualified----
    Those are my political reasons why I always will maintain that trump is not our POTUS---
    Personal reasons---Oh, goodness---so as not to be here all day naming the reasons, I'll just say trump is an ugly, ugly man & I just don't mean looks----
     
  13. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    I love that phrase. It shows how petty, and uninformed those on the left are. Do you actually remember the first six years of the Obama Administration? Do you remember the "Reset Button"? Do you remember the hot-mic moment a few years later? That was when Obama told Putin that he can do a lot more for him after he got reelected. Do you remember that? Probably not. You think Obama was a enemy of Russia the whole time. You conveniently forget that the Obama Administration had a corporative attitude towards Russia and Putin until the US put troops in Syria supporting the opposition forces that Russia was fighting. It is this kind of selective memory that leads to revisionist history. "Trump's pro-Russia rule." That's just plain funny!!!:roflol:
     
  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    For pollster data to create an accurate prediction, they need accurate modeling. Their modeling was, obviously, wrong.
    Their error makes Trump illegitimate? :roflol:

    Who takes the oath of office this Friday?
     
  15. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do they THINK so? Thinking has nothing to do with it. I believe the expression is "butt hurt". No thinking necessary.
     
  16. Maxwell

    Maxwell Banned

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    If you're an American citizen, Trump is your President. Period.
     
  17. tharock220

    tharock220 Well-Known Member

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    Because Hillary won California by the biggest margin ever.
     
  18. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is this a trick question?
    [​IMG]
     
  19. CrankyPant

    CrankyPant New Member

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    despite losing the popular vote by the largest margin of any EC winner in history , he was legitimately elected.
    The illegitimate part come in because he's not acting like a legitimate president - refusing to show his taxes, not taking intelligence briefings, refusing to divest his business interests, not moving into the White House with his family, and spending his time as president-elect picking fights and gloating and bragging and tweeting childish insults at everyone who dares criticize him.
    He's acting like a very thin-skinned dictator, not the President of the United States.
    We took a poll at the poker table last night. 7 to 1 that Trump won't make it through a full term in the White House. And that includes 2 Republicans.
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. That's proof in MY book!
    :yawn:
     
  21. Bluebird

    Bluebird Well-Known Member

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    I would just answer you this way----For a person to make a statement like you just did,you would first have to know the details or the system used---you know neither---just saying----
    I will also say, it is not just me,there is a reason there are Intelligence & FBI investigations going on -I just have to believe there is a footprint & we find it----
    I don't relish the idea of Pence being POTUS,however,Pence is better than a Russian spy-----
     
  22. Bluebird

    Bluebird Well-Known Member

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    I am a proud American citizen----But NOPE----trump did not win legitimately-----So, this cad may take the oath Friday & hopefully the truth comes out & we throw his A** out-----
     
  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    None of this makes me wrong.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/how-did-everyone-get-2016-wrong-presidential-election-231036

    Geoff Garin, a veteran Democratic pollster who worked for the pro-Clinton super PAC Priorities USA, said many surveys had under-sampled non-college-educated whites, a group that Trump appealed to. He also argued there had been on over-emphasis on the belief that the country’s rising demographic diversity would put Clinton over the top.

    “There was too great a belief that demographics are destiny, and that demographics would lead to a certain outcome,” he said. “The reality turned out to be much different that."

    “The pollsters have lost a lot of credibility and won't be believed on anything soon," said Jonathan Barnett, a Republican National Committeeman from Arkansas who supported Trump. "The way they poll doesn't work anymore."
     
  24. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

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    I don't particularly like Trump but there is no doubt that he is the legitimately elected next President. I voted for him as the less of two very different evils. I would have preferred a different Republican but that is not what the OP asked. I'm glad for a thread like this because it makes people think beyond their emotions. I have read all the posts and even though there are many very different opinons about Trump at least nearly everybody agrees that he will be the next President and that he was legitimately elected. Our foundation is the Constitution. If we can't respect that we can't respect anything in any of our government.
     
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Ok, FACTS ONLY...

    "LEGITIMATE:"....
    1. according to law; lawful

    2. in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

    3. born in wedlock or of legally married parents

    4. in accordance with the laws of reasoning; logically inferable; logical: a legitimate conclusion.

    5. resting on or ruling by the principle of hereditary right

    6. not spurious or unjustified; genuine: It was a legitimate complaint.

    7. of the normal or regular type or kind.


    Only definition 1 relates to your position. Definition 2 is questionable. Nbr. 3 and 5 don't apply. The rest (4, 6, and 7) all lend themselves to the use intended by John Lewis and all of the democrats and left who assert that trump is not a legitimate president.

    He is not logically legitimate because he lost the popular vote by over 2.6 million.
    His presidency is not justified by the popular vote so there is a legitimate complaint (6).
    His presidency is not of the "regular type or kind" (7) because of not only serious controversy involving his business conflicts and his Putin connections, but also because of his rabid, hateful, racist, misogynistic, campaign that also violates the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

    Conclusion: the declaration of his "election" as being illegitimate is legitimate.
     
    btthegreat likes this.

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