The flag or the Constitution?

Which is most important to you, the flag and nationalism, or the Constitution?

 

Clearly the Constitution, since the flag is just a big of cloth.

 

The Constitution of course.

 

This is a not question. In Italy it's the same. Since the Constitution states which is the Flag of Italy, the Constitution wins ...

 

I also included the concept of nationalism. Do you identify yourself as an Italian nationalist, or an Italian Constitutionalist?

Humans form groups, tribes, villages, cities, and countries, based on geography, race, culture, common interests and mutual benefit, common language... But historically, the power was held by the powerful. We pride ourselves as the grand experiment in which the government is empowered by the people. That empowerment and the protections for the people come through a set of core principles expressed as laws - The Constitution. So the question of Nationalism vs Constitutionalism comes to down to a choice: What defines the concept of America, the common geography, culture, language, race, etc, OR the principles expressed in the Constitution?

When I hear people talk about defending the flag, I want to cringe. The flag is just cloth. Dictators wrap themselves in flags. And as you said, the flag is meaningless without the Constitution. No soldier or politician swears and oath to protect the flag. But soldiers do take an oath to defend the Constitution with their life. We are a nation defined by principles and not just borders. At least, we were. Now, I'm not sure.

So as I look around today, it seems to come down to a choice. Are you a Nationalist, or a Constitutionalist?

 

Our Constitution is essential. It's a brilliant document in countless ways.


On the other hand, any fool can create a flag and believe his country is, for some reason, superior.

 

The Constitution is an outline of national law, without which you'd have no idea what your nationalism represents. The flag is a useless piece of cloth that will be changed anyway if Puerto Rico or Guam become states.

 

Hmmm, 106 views but only 8 votes. Not a good sign. Do we have a bunch of Nationalists who won't admit that they don't value the Constitution?

Do we have closet anti-Americans here?

 

I will go with the principle the constitution,
and bound to respect the symbol the flag.

 

The flag is just a symbol made by human beings. By all means, respect what it symbolizes, but the symbol itself is just a tool. Loyalty to the symbol and symbolic rituals distracts people from important loyalties.

 

Costitutionalist ... generally Italians are not Nationalist [a part the extreme right], I'm a conservative moderate, in Italy this means to be a patriot, not a real nationalist [the difference is that for a patriot it's "The Republic First", for a Nationalist it's "The Nation First"].

 

You have not given enough choices. I salute the flag, and I defend the Constitution. They are equal. When it comes to burning the flag, I recognize that it is a form of speech, and therefore protected under the Constitution. That does not mean that I would not thrash anyone that attempted to burn a flag that I own.

 

The point of this thread is that they are not equal. The Constitution is what defines the country. The flag is just a symbol. You can change the flag and have no effect on the nation. Change the Constitution and you change the country.

Ask ten people what the flag represents and you will probably get ten different answers.

 

So, we need better, read less liberal, education in this country. To me they are both equal. The flag is a symbol of our nation. It stripes represent the 13 original colonies, and it's stars represent each states. The flag is a representation of our country. You might be able to change the flag, but you can't change what it stands for. A new flag would still symbolize the same nation. It will stand for our commitment to unity.

 

Of course, Nationalism and flags at home.

 

Bingo! That was in the back of my mind as I posted this thread. The flag can easily be used for misdirection, as a magician would, to draw attention away from the real threats to the Constitution.

Dictators wrap themselves in flags. The Constitution is what matters.

I guess you could say that flag burning is the act symbolizing disparities between core, Constitutional principles, and the actions of those in power. When someone burns a flag, they are saying that our most cherished principles are being violated. It is not an act against the Constitution, it is in defense of the Constitution.

 

They are all important.

They are kind of like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

If we changed the flag would we still be America? Would we be America without the Constitution?

It is particularly interesting that you would use the trinity as an example given that it's a mystery. Do you think what defines the US is a mystery?

 

We have changed the looks of the flag over the years, and we've changed the US Constitution (almost always for the worst).

Still America--but a less democratic one---more Marxist. Maybe the GOP can bring us back to our basic roots.

 

Not true. The US has never been Marxist and it just gets further and further away from anything resembling Socialism. True, it is getting less and less Democratic but it is being replace by Fascism, not Marxist.

 

I guess the constitution because it has some good principles in it. The flag is just a piece of cloth and nationalism is just secular religion based upon a mixture feel-good lies and exaggerated triumphs. I wouldn't hold either as sacred though.

 

That's due to it being a dumb question. It's like asking "do you like milk or cows?"

 

Well the Constitution is just a piece of parchment whereas the flag represents American values and morals. The Constitution can be amended, easily changed from a Republic into an oligarchy of some kind provided we get the right mix of president, congress, and court justices. I would argue that the flag embodies more of America than the Constitution does.

 

Both are loathed by the liberals.