Israel legalizes land theft

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Ronstar, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Today the Knesset voted to give retro-active legality to thousands of settler homes built on Arab private land.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-his...-bank-outposts-with-sweeping-new-legislation/

    They know the homes were built without permits.

    They know they were built on Arab private land.

    And yet rather than kick the thieves off the land, they have chosen to instead grant retro-active permits.

    Arabs NEVER get retro-active permits for illegally built housing or other buildings. Only Jews get such things.

    This is a tragic day for the Jewish State. Tragic and God will judge them.
     
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sad state of affairs. Seems Bibi and the gang are one step closer to "from river to sea".
     
  3. ScottR2

    ScottR2 Active Member

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    They now have more land under their control so I don't see how it's tragic for them.

    Also how do you know God won't judge them favorably? Maybe their God wants them to expand. You don't actually think they're beholden to the Muslim God do you? They don't need a heaven with 72 virgins. They get plenty of sex right here on earth.
     
  4. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    Jonsa; et al,

    I'm not sure I understand your meaning.

    (COMMENT)

    The mantra "from the River to the Sea" is actually the chant from the Arabs of Palestine; it is written into their doctrine.

    Of course, the early Jewish Leaders had envisioned a much larger nation state, but in these contemporary times,Israel does not actually want the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. These two areas are populated with a parasitic people that lives off of International donations and foreign aid.

    The Government of Palestine is a creation in the image of the population. Corrupt, factional, and totally unproductive as a benevolent government it is NOT acting in the best interest of the people. If that were so, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (the State of Palestine) would not be that far behind in terms of measurable standards for Human Development. Where Israel Ranks 18th on the Human Development Index (higher than any member nation of the Arab League, including the oil rich nations), the State of Palestine ranks 113th.

    In the 21st Century, even the Arab League States do not want to dismantle Israel in favor of yet another radicalized nation that cannot support itself or the people. Additionally, while the Arab Palestinians are constantly chanting against the US Foreign Policy; threatening consequences, the US has been the single largest donor nation to the beleaguered people of Palestine through the UNRWA and any Arab League State (more than three times any Arab State and double the entire EU contribution).

    Israel, like every other Regional Power in the Middle East would find the Arab Palestinian people to be an albatross around their neck. Economically speaking, the Arab Palestinians, given the same amount of time as the Israelis, have ≈ 33% unemployment (≈ 900,000) people. This alone it Arab Palestinian's defense against the takeover of the West Bank.

    Israel will, however, take the advantage to secure key ground (defensible boundary) in order to protect the territorial integrity of their nation. Or as the US Joints Chiefs of State put it (JCSM 373-67) "Israel might be justified in retaining in order to permit a more effective defense against possible conventional Arab attack and terrorist raids." And this is made even more possible everyday the Arab Palestinians actively avoid negotiating a permanent peace.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  5. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow that's great news! I wish the new settlers luck and hope they get along well with their new neighbors.
     
  6. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    "Only Jews get retro-active permits", as you claim, and yet many Jewish settlements got evecuated, while illegal buildings near Jericho have a building plan from the Civil Administration. There was severel years ago a case of illegal buildings of Arabs near Ma'ale Adomim that the Civil Administration created on the land of the illegal buildings + taking some land from Ma'ale Adomim for the establishment of such city.

    I can go on and on, and yet this two cases alone shows that the illegal buildings of Arabs in WB has the opppurtunity to get retro-active permits for their illegal buildings, while Jewish settlements get evecuated.
     
  7. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, didn't Britain legalize that in '48?
     
  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To start to comprehend my statement, you should examine the hard line zionist position of Eretz Yisroel.
    Indeed "Israel from river to sea" is a founding platform of the ruling Likud party. Meanwhile the arabs have consistently called their goal of the elimination of Israel "liberation of all of historic palestine".

    Annexation of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria are absolutely the goal of these hard core zionists. As to what to do with all those inconvenient arabs, many hardcore zionists think they should simply move across the river into Jordan (the "other part of the original palestinian mandate).

    While I certainly agree that palestinian leadership has been incompetent, corrupt, deceptive and delusional, you should also consider that the conditions imposed on the palestinians have contributed enormously to the plight.

    Pehaps you should also consider that the "secure key ground" you are talking about is being occupied by apartment buildings and shopping malls which kinda detracts from the "secure, defensible, border" argument.

    As to the Palestinians actively avoiding negotiations, that is most definitely a two player game.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you have NO evidence of any non-Jews getting retro-active building permits for structures they built upon someone else's private property, in Area C.
     
  10. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    You want evidences? I'm all about evidences. Here you go:
    Israel approved a building plans near Jordan Valley Regional Council for the illegal building of Arabs that exsit on the exact land:
    Source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/168504

    I can provide more evidences if you like. Meanwhile, as you can read yourself, Israel approved building a new Arab city near the Jordan Valley Regional Council, for the Arab residents that live illegaly there, while some of the land will be taken from lands that the Jordan Valley Regional Council is built on.
    Hence, Israel approved giving retro-active permits for those illegal Arab residents.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    your article says NOTHING about non-Jewish housing getting retro-active building permits.

    it says the Arabs who build housing on State land were being given housing SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!!
     
  12. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    My source says just the opposite. My source says that Arabs that live illeglay near the Jordan Valley Regional Council, and that Israel approved building a new Arab city in that area forf the illegal Arab residents. Hence, the illegal Arab residents will be given retro-active permits.
     
  13. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    Jonsa, et al,

    Yes, this [Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael (Land of Israel) Faithful Movement] is one faction (within the Orthodox Jewish Community) of the overall background of the entirety of the Israeli population. The contemporary Eretz Yisrael was created in the same years as the Six Day War (a half-century age). And just as the Islamic Resistance Movement Khaled Meshaal has also has said, "Palestine is ours (Arab Palestinians) from the river to the sea;" so it is that, born from the same time period, the Likud Party also adopted a similar (original 1967) objective: "Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."

    No one argues that.

    BUT having said that, other factors come into play. Israel has also adopted a position, since that time, "Israel will invite her neighbors to hold direct negotiations, in order to sign without pre-conditions on either side and without any solution formula invented by outsiders (invented outside )."

    (COMMENT)

    In Khaled Meshal published a major position paper for HAMAS to explain its political positions; the first two points are:

    1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

    2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim

    This concept has not changed sing the pre-War letter (A/AC.21/10 16 February 1948 ) from the The Delegation of the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine to the UN Secretary General which outlined, in a formal form, the threat: “The Arabs of Palestine are, therefore, solidly determined to oppose, with all the means at their disposal, any scheme that provides for the dissection, segregation or partition of their tiny Country, or that gives to a minority, on the ground of creed, special and preferential rights or status."

    This is based on the preconceived notion that "Palestine" (the territory to which the Mandate Applied - as defined by the 1st Palestine Order in Council) was their territory. The Arab Higher Committee totally ignored Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne in which the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic renounced all title and rights to the Allied Powers; not to the Arab League and not to any local inhabitant.

    In the letter to the UN Secretary General, the Arabs of Palestine implicitly stated they considered "that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense." The Arab League emphatically stated that "the Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition." It was a suicide pact that stipulated: "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child."

    Nearly every complaint that the Arab Palestinians have today, finds its hostile pledge rooted in the "Solemn Oath" of every "man, woman and child" in the Arab Palestinian community.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is 100% dishonest.

    their illegally built housing will still be torn down.

    they will be given homes elsewhere.

    its in your own quote
     
  15. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    The building plans shows the opposite. What is in my qoute that the building plans for the illegal Arab huses will provide a solution for the illegal buildings. Hence, they will getretro-active permits.
     
  16. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Likud was on the scene long before Meshaal was even born.

    I do not dispute that the Palestinians and the arabs were totally out to wipe israel off the map and the jews into the sea. They tried for decades refusing to talk or even acknowledge Isreal's existence. The PLO was founded on the principle of "liberation of all of historic palestine".

    I get all that. But nobody is innocent in this generational clustermuck and that includes the right wing hardcore zionists of Israel.
     
  17. RoccoR

    RoccoR Well-Known Member Donor

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    Jonsa, et al,

    Well, on much of the substantive material points --- I think we agree.

    (COMMENT)

    On the issue of which came first, National Liberal Movement (founded 1973) or Khaled Mashal (born 1956) political leader of HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) (founded 1967); we will just have to agree to disagree. This one salient point is not worth any discussion time.

    (COMMENT)

    Yes, this is most definitely correct - a place for us to agree. In one degree or another, all the nations and political influences have dirty hands; no one is truly clean. But no matter what should have been done, what was considered justice then and now, there is no excuse for the continuation of violence. The continuation of violence on the part of the Arab Palestinians is outside the standard by Western Law.

    The Art of Power
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
    Penal legislation. V. Penalties. Death penalty


    ARTICLE 68


    Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed. Furthermore, internment or imprisonment shall, for such offences, be the only measure adopted for depriving protected persons of liberty. The courts provided for under Article 66 of the present Convention may at their discretion convert a sentence of imprisonment to one of internment for the same period.

    The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began.

    The death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person unless the attention of the court has been particularly called to the fact that since the accused is not a national of the Occupying Power, he is not bound to it by any duty of allegiance.

    In any case, the death penalty may not be pronounced against a protected person who was under eighteen years of age at the time of the offence.


    In this case, the Protected Persons are Arab Palestinians. And of course the Israelis are the Occupying Power. As you can see, if the Arab Palestinians set out to harm the Israelis; --- OR --- where the Arab Palestinians conduct espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the Israeli military installations; --- OR --- caused the death of one or more persons, are outside the established International Law (GCIV).

    I think the center controversy here is why did the Israelis have to institute security countermeasures against the neighboring unincorporated Arab Palestinians. What most people forget is that many of the controversial acts escalated in the 21st Century.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
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  18. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so the existing structures will not be demolished? the Arabs will be able to stay in the existing structures?

    your article says no such thing.

    hence the existing structures will NOT be getting retro-active building permits.

    I am right, you are wrong.
     
  19. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    The building plans shows the opposite. What is in my qoute, and thus says in my sourve is that the building plans for the illegal Arab huses will provide a solution for the illegal buildings. Hence, they will get retro-active permits.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "illegal" buildings will be demolished.

    There will be no retro-active building permits.

    Housing will be built elsewhere.

    deal with the truth.
     
  21. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    That's be contradicted by the building plan that was approved by Ya'alon. According to that building pland the Arabs in that area wil get ertro-active permits.
     
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the buildings will be demolished.

    so your claim is false.
     
  23. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have read the full article you posted.

    Article says NOTHING about retro-active building permits for any currently existing structures.

    Hence, your claim is totally FALSE.
     
  24. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Not accroding to my surce, as I showed you in my previous comments.

    Please re-read comment #10. Idont want to repeat myself after I showed you the total opposite.
     
  25. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    your source says new housing will be built elsewhere.

    says nothing about existing buildings allowing to stay.

    hence, they will be demolished.
     

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