What can the major parties do to save themselves???

Well, much has been said about Trump being elected as president. Even in Australia Hanson, Bernardi, Xenophon and Lamby (lol) all are trying to channel the discontent the US elects have demonstrated. People slammed Palmer’s effort but really he was the first sign of this discontent and both major parties have demonstrated contempt for the people’s wishes even after minority government and continued independent presence in the parliament forcing governments to deal with many different people.

Ok, I think we all agree here on those basics, so let us move on.

1. I believe it is important to have parties with common beliefs in order to navigate government to productive and timely direction for the people??? Sure these current politicians are not fitting that as they are all too busy worrying about how to get re-elected.
2. Is there time for the major parties to change their ways before the next election to repair the damage of decades of contempt and deception and get enough support to be elected???
3. Just what will they have to do to repair and please the people to get them to vote for them???
Since the major parties do not seem interested in the people’s wishes and would rather spend billions buying votes and placating the noisy minority groups the question of who will emerge as a serious contender for governing the nation outside of the two main parties.

For me the Greens continue to demonstrate their rather deceptive stance on their policies and their childish petty ignorance to the people. Bernardi, Hanson and lamby (LOL) just complete nut jobs. While Hanson has made some interesting moves last week or two generally her outlandish views on many aspects of what people want. Lamb… Need I say more???

Hanson, probably the most able to profit from the discord Trump has Shown exists but Xenophon, well he is possibly the person who suffers the most. Most people believe him to be the bastard child of one political party or another which seems to make him part of the problem not a solution. Even though he has been reasonably considered when it comes to his own state.

Well any thoughts???

 

1. Governments with a more centralised view, whether from the right or left, seem to fair better than extremities as they appeal to more of the population.

2. NO. The distrust is far too advanced for any quick fix. The Establishment must be totally abolished in order for people to re-engage. Minority government to be the normal for some time yet. Unfortunately.

3. This is harder to answer. First the question has to be asked of the people themselves. "do we the voters want a two minute fix, or are we able to see past our own greedy personal lives to see the big picture"? Once that is answered then this question is easily resolved.

Hanson will be a major player in Queensland politics over the next two or three elections. Xenaphon is more localised. He is much adored in his region and will have longevity through locality alone.

As long as there remains minority government, the likes of Xenaphon, Lambie, and to a lesser extent, Hanson, will always have sustenance, and will play a decisive role in our political culture.

The problem here is not the Politicians, it is us, the people. We do not demand enough of our politicians, we do not know what power we can yield, and the worst of it is, we are greedy, self serving, and visionless. Politicians have not caused that, they may of enabled its growth, but they didn't cause it.

We get the politicians we deserve.

 

sf,
best post in a long time, well done. That is exactly right.
I wonder how we could get that low?
Ask the same about Americans, a puzzy grabber as President?
Where are our ethics and values gone?
You are right, we are some selfish bastards....
Cheers

 

Some good points Not sure about Hanson, seems to be making all the right noises federally at the moment. I do believe she will run out of puff, but as long as she gets some decent members with half a brain cell she may be able to keep it up for a while.

Sure the people get what they deserve, I agree. BUT let us face it, the parties don’t look like they will survive much longer. We saw the ALP cracks in the last ALP government and we see far clearer the Coalition. Since the Coalition is made of different party and ideals surely it will fail first.

The ALP fragmented trying to continually support a base that becomes far less relevant in the world while they continue to push the trolley of greed but I think we can take heart that majority of people are waking up to the irrelevance of the Unions while they sit in the 50’s and 60’s ideals.

Sure many people look at the ALP’s constant need to join forces with the Greens to achieve anything with distaste but the truth is, until the ALP stand for a true purpose of assisting the people then they too appear to be destine to pail into insignificance along with their union support.

Again I think you sell the people short a bit. Greed is a great motivator but remember the recession we had to have??? People will do what is necessary when they see it is needed and not just to assist politicians feeding their own greedy lifestyles. That is why that grub Shorten is continuing to attack Turnbull over his personal wealth. He thinks it will garner enough votes to be elected, what he forgets is that he rails over most of the population as being in the same boat as Turnbull (which they are not) as being wealthy because they may own a piece of property valued at a million dollars. Don’t mention the fact their bank loans for million and half, they are still millionaires who don’t pay enough so the ALP can buy a few more votes.

This looks to be the moment when the nation will suffer under collapsing party system of failure. I am pretty sure the Coalition will split first giving the ALP the opportunity to destroy many lives before the people see the irrelevance of their beliefs and ideals. Best thing to occur will be continued minority government in attempt to reduce the damage an unchecked government can do.

If you notice they all are running to form parties to capitalise on the discourse, building groups to keep themselves relevant. Hanson, Bernardi continue to deliberately try show they have no ties to the coalition and Xenaphon, we all know what I think. But since they are all setting parties to not only protect their arses it is to gouge the money from the electorate. IN other words, self-interest again is the demonstration NOT the views or beliefs of the electorates… On it goes I guess…

 

I think the answer is on Nick Xenophon's site, he's a very popular politician because he campaigns on issues ordinary Australians relate to.

Personally gambling and Australian made is not something that would sway my vote, government accountability definitely is.

https://nxt.org.au/whats-nxt/our-focus/

and his policies outlined

https://nxt.org.au/whats-nxt/policy-principles/

he's just so transparent, for a politician anyway

 

Agreed re which party will fold first.

Labor is the most likely to pull it together in my opinion, however the road may well be too far to travel. A massive purge of membership would be required. A pruning of the tree so to speak. I don't think they have the stamina to travel that road.

"the recession we had to have". Garry a lot has changed since those days, and most evidently is that of societal views. We still had a pretty solid manufacturing base, and imported goods were something only the rich could afford. Globalisation had yet to take off, Australians were still under the mindset that the family home was the pinnacle of ones success. Family structure was still largely intact, and if you were lucky you could afford a press button land line telephone.

Like a dog, bad habits are easily learnt, and harder to dispose of. We are too soft now for hard yards. We are a nation of byline readers, and reactive by habit. Easy picking for an unscrupulous media hungry for click bait.

I stand by what I said. If you want to change the political landscape and idealism of our leaders, we must first look to ourselves for the spine in which to fight for it. Otherwise we will always get what we have always gotten. Buckets of sh!t.

 

I am not sure the ALP has the will to change, however, the attempt to appear to change will be a major obstacle to their plans I am sure. The problem really is purging the power base that is only intent on making themselves relevant. An interesting conundrum which I also believe they will lose.

Oh you get me wrong about the recession we had to have; it was simply to point out that majority do take the hard road when it is considered to be needed. Times have changed and as you so rightly point out such issues are far more detrimental to the situation today. Sure, Australia do not find self-sacrifice palatable but I do believe majority do have it in them for the right reasons. Since both parties are far too busy concerning themselves with self-interest I do not see anybody following them when the big questions are asked.

I understand what you are saying and do agree to most, I just feel you sell the people short. I may be wrong but I still have faith the people will stand when needed, not when wanted. BUT you are right we must look to ourselves first and it is a massive fight needed to get back to the best we can be. The problem has been made over decades I would hope it does not take that long to solve, I am sure it will...

 

What a game to be in. Forces from all angles doing there best to get what they can from you and then competing for your job and attempting to justify stupid decisions based on doners demands. It's all the nature of the beast stuff with a massive twist with the advent of social media. I think it will be good for Australian politics to have a few threatening minor parties in the mix to ensure the duopoly keeps their focus on the people's demands collectively and not just a group of wealthy people or large organisations. If these politicians are too stupid to see the writing on the wall then I guess it will be game over for Austalia's big 2 sooner rather than later.

The noisy minority by far are our wealthy, which includes our major media owners. Can't get any more minority than that.

- - - Updated - - -

What a game to be in. Forces from all angles doing there best to get what they can from you and then competing for your job and attempting to justify stupid decisions based on doners demands. It's all the nature of the beast stuff with a massive twist with the advent of social media. I think it will be good for Australian politics to have a few threatening minor parties in the mix to ensure the duopoly keeps their focus on the people's demands collectively and not just a group of wealthy people or large organisations. If these politicians are too stupid to see the writing on the wall then I guess it will be game over for Austalia's big 2 sooner rather than later.

The noisy minority by far are our wealthy, which includes our major media owners. Can't get any more minority than that.

 

I agree with bits ‘n’ pieces of both your theories, but don’t agree with the whole content. There are certain “triggering factors” within both political parties that will decide which political party outlasts its rival. Which ever political party pulls the trigger the first, will survive - the others will bite the dust like the Democrats. There is a massive political movement happening throughout Australia, and whichever political party has the courage to capitalises on that movement will be the victors. After being asleep at the wheel for nearly Century; the Australian people are finally waking up, and realising that the three mainstream political parties (ALP, Greens & LNP) have never really represent them, or represented what they wanted.

I disagree with the comments about One Nation’s future as a serious rival. Who would have though their popularity would have skyrocketed from a basic 6% in the State of Queensland to over 15% Nationally, in only 12 months. We also have to take into consideration the voting gains made by other political parties like: Nick Xeonphon; Kirralie’s Smith’s ALA party; Jacqui Lambi; Bob Katter, and now Cory Bernardi - just to name a few. If all these people voted for ONE party, they could easily rival the ALP or LNP at any State or Federal election.

Its not a matter of when the ALP or LNP will implode, it’s a matter of when these progressive smaller parties will join forces and collaborate their efforts to become the next major political party in Australia.

So far, through her consorted efforts, Senator Hanson is solely responsible for stopping Queensland farmers from having their land requisitioned for the Singaporean military. Not a word, or thank you from that gutless Turnbull about the frontline role Senator Hanson played in stopping this from occurring. The spineless parasite trying to make out it was his idea - if he had idea, his brain would go into a seizure.

The Australian people see for themselves that Senator Hanson and her candidates are not just paying them lip-service, but actually getting things done. This is why her popularity is climbing. She might not have experience, but Wayne Swan was just a TAFE teacher before he become Australia's Treasurer. Instead of condemning the woman and her party candidates all the time, why not help her help us.

 

I do believe the point of the Nationals chaffing under a party who does not consider or care about the rural sector, the base support for the Nationals is the driving force for a split. BUT at present drastic failures of the ALP could spell big problem. Is interesting thoughts.

While we cannot discount the voter reaction to particular independent parties we do have to remember the basis of support these parties are coming from. Bernardi elected under safe liberal seat, could spell disaster and the fact he is trying to follow the example many have made forming parties to benefit from the electoral system more rather than build alternative party to the mainstream. Hanson has been the only one to actually capitalise on the party system which puts her in good stead for the future. I agree she will remain a force in the political scene for a while and I would hope, while the parties are imploding. The damage an unchecked political party could do at this time is extreme.

BUT while Hanson is doing Alright she has to get some respectable candidates, currently her party has presided over bankruptcy, conspiracy theorists and people who appear not to be able to manage their bills let alone an economy. Just to name a few. Sure people agree with her style her party style, just as Xenophon is dictatorial. While that appears to be ok the fact is her members do not appear to be competent enough to string a sentence together without advisers support. While she does appear dictatorial she also appears not to have control of her party as they seem to publically defy her and basically flip her bird.

Maybe she will prove us wrong, I just don’t see it without some party reform driven by party inclusion not dictatorial demand…

 

I'd like to see a lot more minor parties in the mix. The current ones almost all have leftist economic policies, some sensible, some not so much (like the ones that want to go back to Australia "making things" and restricting or stopping imports. That way lies trade WORLD wars, guys. Remember the Great War? It also cheerfully consigns developing nations to poverty. We’re better than that, aren’t we? ) But many of the minor parties are too rightest in their social policies and vision.

Stopping refugees won't save Australia. Trying to do our bit to stop the reason people flee in the first place might. I don't know about you, but I don’t see bombing the bejesus out of people thousands of miles from my front door particularly productive for myself, my family or my country. Hating this amorphous thing called "Islam" isn't particularly helpful, either, unless the object is to create fear and loathing. I guess all that fear and loathing justifies bombing the bejesus out of people thousands of miles from my front door, but it’s a damn shame about all the fear. And the loathing. Particularly if you happen to be part of the miniscule minority of Australians (2.2%) who happen to be “Islam” (Muslim in polite circles) . Does anyone feel the need to denounce Sunday mass because of Westboro Baptist church? And don’t tell me it isn't the same thing: yes it bloody is!

More centrist social parties with leftist economic policies - a few more NXT type parties- would be great. Ones that don’t sell fear and loathing or liberal identity politics. I'd love to see some genuinely left vision parties, too. Actually, I’d give my right arm for it.

We don’t have any left representation in Australian politics anymore. The left is AWOL, we’ve just got liberals. The belief that society will magically progress if everyone just gets educated and joins the professional/knowledge class is liberalist, not left. And like all good liberals, they believe in free trade, competition and small government. In other words, Neoliberal capitalism. They believe in it because they are the privileged, professional/knowledge class and they’re doing very nicely the way things are, thanks very much.

I’m looking at you, Greens. Please pick up your bat and ball and leave the field. Ditto the Labor left. You still can’t get your heads around the fact that galloping income disparity and the growing wages/productivity gap is a screaming red flag that modern capitalism has deep structural problems gay marriage rights legislation and public understanding of cisgender privilege will not cure. You contribute little but further division to society, you lecture the majority on tolerance while you tolerate rising inequality, so eff off home. Maybe a genuine left will re-emerge then.

As for the Liblabs. Well. The problem is we can’t tell you apart because your economic policies are exactly the same and unfortunately for you, we woke up to what you meant by free trade, competition and small government. You sold us a pig in a poke. It’s a particularly ugly, vicious pig and we’re returning it, thanks. You can take your pig and shove it.

There’s also no difference in your social policies or vision. Both of you are elitist. Both of you are divisive. Both of you are rotten to the core with identity politics. Both of you believe society is divided into most worthy/least worthy individuals and groups. You’re simply not for all Australians all of the time or even some of the time, but in spite of your best efforts over the past thirty years to corrupt us into a nation that puts “I” and “me” ahead of “us” and “we”, deep in our hearts we the Australian people still believe in the fair go and that's why your bases have deserted you.

My fear is you will continue pushing us further to the right by piling on the fear and loathing more and more while increasing the income disparity and productivity/wages gap. After all, chance didn’t put us here, you did. And that way lies fascism.

 

Brilliant

I think we all come to this forum with an attitude be it good or bad, we have instilled in us a range of emotions that we have sought or picked up throughout our day.

Our minds are clouded, our reasoning is biased for it's own self preservation.

Then we start to read a post like this, the world quiets as the words cut into or thoughts. We might strongly agree or we may be preparing to spit venom but we read and digest.

Why, because we all know it is true

 

Plain and simple a great post, good on ya,
cheers