Taxation-lite & taxation-heavy

Taxes are government revenues and are dependent upon a government's definition of who gets to keep what revenue and how much.

Given that definition, there is a range from Taxation-lite to Taxation-heavy. Living in the US, and comparatively across nations, this is what they are:


Why should anyone in the US complain about taxation, given that on a spectrum of international tax rates as a percent of GDP - they are below most. In the above list, the top-Ten European countries have taxation rates at or above 40% of GDP, whilst the US is at 27.3%.

So, what's the catch?

I'll answer that question: It all depends upon what governments do with taxation - and if the European countries are Tax-heavy it is because they "do more" for their population. Two very basic societal necessities are guaranteed by tax-revenues in the EU, which are free (or nearly free) National Health Care and Postsecondary Education.

The first helps guaranty that one remains alive and healthy enough to work, and the second that (as regards work) one is able to obtain the skills/competencies that advanced economies generally require to provide decent jobs at decent salaries ...

 

I'm thinking this comparison is a bit simplified; What about factors like tax dollars per citizen? What about the level of progressiveness in tax policy? Where does the nation lie in terms of cost of living and industrial development and national emergencies?

I don't personally like comparing much of anything to GDP. Some compare GDP to federal government income and I don't like this because it depends on the tax policy in place.

Lastly, how can we ever talk about tax policy when the federal government and Americans have a perpetual deficit spending problem? It seems stupid to create tax policy always with the assumption that every new year will bring another $500 billion in deficit spending? Federal government is spending about $12,700 per year for every man, woman and child in the USA! How stupid is this when arguably 50%-70% of Americans cannot afford to pay this amount? And...the US infrastructure is crumbling and we need trillion$ more invested in this area...where is this money coming from when over half of Americans either refuse or cannot afford to pay higher taxes? Now add in the tax burden from city, county, and state government taxation, plus sales and excise taxes, and it becomes clear why Americans complain about taxation...

 

That's evident.

You are afraid of the facts, and those facts are best expressed (in an Economics Forum) by the data at hand. Which I have presented to you.

You can complain about the data, but stats are the Only Common Language for discussing economic policy in a market-economy. (As is the one in which we live, btw.)

GDP is always a good start, because beyond GDP one always gets into the nitty-gritty of how governments decide to share the produce of GDP ("P" meaning "product"). And there we come to "taxation of national income".

Whereupon the work done at the UofCal (Profs. Saez/Zucman) comes up with this infographic, since Taxed-Income translates directly into Wealth.

Perhaps you'd like to explain why we, the sheeple, must accept the Gross Disparity shown between the "Filthy-Rich" and the "Rest of us"?

Why does Tax Policy in the US so unjustly favor only one tiny, tiny group of the entire population?

Please respond to the question ...

 

I don't think it favors just "one tiny group" but the groups at either end of the spectrum to the detriment to the middle of the spectrum. I mean if you are rich you get preferential tax treatment for your most likely investments, and if you are poor the financial aid system pretty much gives you a free ride or a big fat earned income tax credit when you start cranking out kids. I have a relative who is going to be getting over $10K in tax refund between him and his gf because she has kids without him to claim and they have kids together he is claiming.

 

May I suggest you have a very serious misunderstanding of both groups.?

The rich invest their money for the most part in investment bearing accounts. The exploits of Silicon Valley start-ups creating billionaires may be true, but even if the investor-group are certainly rich people, they are a minuscule proportion of the total number who simply stock their wealth under bank management (meaning shares-ownership dividends and value appreciation as well as interest-bearing accounts.)

Otoh, there are the 14 million Americans who live below the Poverty Threshold (income of $24K/year for a family of four); and if you think they are living off the "fat of the land" fed them by government subventions I suggest you make the effort to get to know them better. It will be evidently an eye-opener for you.

Start here: 10 Common Misconceptions About the Poor - excerpt:

 

I don't need to get to know the poor better. I see it first hand. Let's see: The couple I posted about get free rent; they get a check every month to help cover their utility bill; they get welfare; and they work just enough to be able to get the EITC, though I strongly suspect she really doesn't work at all, but gets a relative to 1099 her for "baby-sitting" so she has income. I, on the other hand, pay for my housing, my health insurance, all my food, and my utility bill; and come April 15th, I will be mailing Uncle Sam another check beyond what they have already kept from me throughout the year, and several days a week, hard working down trotten baby daddy is camped out at my house playing X-Box, eating my food, or getting huffy because I won't give him the passcode for the TV that allows him to watch crap that I would have to pay for that was only put on there because he decided to sit there one night and purchase a ton of movies that I had to pay for. Oh he didn't just rent them, he purchased them so I had to pony up around $14.00 a pop.

 

So instead of a dialogue you just wish to attack me? Afraid of the facts? I NEVER said they were not facts?? I said I DO NOT like comparing anything to GDP!

GDP is meaningless! It's an indicator of national productivity...has nothing to do with tax policy!

 

LBis is very biased, only seeing what they wish to see to support their position. When approximately 100 million so-called Americans don't pay any federal income taxes I'd say the US tax policy is favoring just about everyone. But they can only be jealous of the wealthy, go after the wealthy, as if the wealthy don't already pay the lion's share of income taxes. Perhaps I'm mentally ill but never in my life did I ever have a nanosecond thought about wanting others to pay more taxes so I can pay less...what kind of people want others to pay their way?

 

true, but not the top 1% who pay 44% of all Federal income tax.

 

total nonsense of course. If they get free education for 2 kids that is $24k extra right there. If they get free health care that is $40k extra right there. Free housing there is another $15k. In America the poor are richer than those who are not!!

 

Bollocks are your numbers AND your deprecation of the poor unacceptable.

Moving right along ...

- - - Updated - - -

Gross stupidity in an economics forum!

Moving right along ...

 

Ad hominem sarcasm and unfitting for a public debate forum.

Tit for tat: How Fortune 500 Companies Avoid Paying $620 Billion in Taxes - excerpt:

I can play your silly game too!

Who's jealous?

It is criminal for an American company to "hide money" offshore rather than pay corporate profit taxes on it whilst entering it in the US. And who knows what corporate leaders of those companies are doing with the funds? Buying majestic properties in the Caymans to spend their holidays there?
(Only $3.5M!)

As an American citizen living abroad, I am obliged to pay taxes on "all my earnings" regardless of their source first to the national authorities (up to a certain limit) and then to the IRS for the rest ...

'Nuff said... !?!

 

Well...the more we make the more we can pay. I'm okay with a reasonable progressive tax system...but there are limits. It is rare, other than from personal emotion, that anyone in the 1% complains about taxation.

My point was those who whine the most about taxation are actually the one's who are favored the most with current IRS tax policy...

 

Okay wise guy....GDP will be $20 trillion one of these years...what will be the federal tax revenues in that same year?

 

If someone is hiding money then the law will take care of it.

All corporations operating outside of the US pay applicable local taxation.

No US corporation is getting any tax break that is unlawful...if you don't like the laws change them but don't vilify corporations following the laws...

 

when top 1% pay 44% instead of 1% of taxes that's not reasonable. It just enables libs to cripple more Americans and expand the dependent leeching class. This is obviously not a good thing.

 

what????? O'Reilly and Hannity complain all the time, as does everyone else who pays it!!!!! Try making the tax voluntary rather than collect it at gunpoint and see how people really feel!!

 

What you know about the matter is obviously nothing.

No local taxes are paid in the Caymans ...

 

Too bad you did not look at the actual source.

Then you would see that -
Taxes by Type as Shares of Total Tax Receipts in the United States and Other OECD Countries, 1965-2009
All income taxes/total taxes
the US is taxed at 40.0%, making it 7 of 28

Your argument is based on false data.

 

I'm a taxpayer and a business owner and never has paying taxes been an issue. Paying corporate taxes on 'taxable income' is never a problem! In fact, if I was paying more in taxation it would mean I was making more and keeping more. Again, and I know many people in the top 15% of income earners, never once have any of them complained about taxation. As a business owner I require significant support from society and paying taxes is how I pay for what I demand and use. BTW; federal taxation laws are not 'libs' law...they are laws created by Congress and presidents...

 

O'Reilly = emotion!

Hannity = emotion!

I pay it and I'm not complaining so obviously 'everyone' does not complain?

Either you support your government and your country or you do not...if it's the latter there are options to locate outside of the USA. Many people and businesses choose this option which is fine.

Lastly, no matter what you believe, if you pay attention to the US economy, and the stock market, and the living standards, and corporate successes, you can see that no matter the income tax policy we have today things are going pretty...pretty...good...

- - - Updated - - -

You have a reading deficiency...I said they pay APPLICABLE local taxation...and this means it can range from 0% to 40%...

 

Bollocks.

Taxation is reported in the GDP. Therefore it is normal that its percentage of GDP is calculable.

You just don't like the results, so you are "inventing" an excuse.

Grow up ...

 

Trump is president and the establishment out because a majority disagrees. How could things be good wit the liberal influence so large?

 

Wrong. I looked at the actual OECD data, the source for your graph. Your graph was not for total taxes. You FAIL.

 

Wrong again - you are making a bad habit of it.

The Caymans have no income taxation. They have sales-tax.

Not the same thing and far easier to collect ...