You're just an actor, Kate

Discussion in 'Music, TV, Movies & other Media' started by Le Chef, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    A line in the movie The Aviator, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, has been on my mind lately. When the character playing Katherine Hepburn dumps DiCaprio's Howard Hughes, he basically says "Don't let the door tap you in the rear on the way out. There are thousands more like you. " She asks him not to be cruel, and he explains, "you're just an actor, Kate." And he was right in this. Howard Hughes on the other hand, was an entrepreneur, who created wealth with oil production, and a designer of airplanes that really worked.

    It occurs to me that the most vocal and visible critics of our current president (after the noisy Elizabeth Warren) are actors and journalists. But that's all they are. What do they do for society, really? Actors make their living pretending to be someone else and often get paid millions for it (I do like old movies like Mutiny on the Bounty, Manchurian Candidate, and A Face in the Crowd, so don't misunderstand). And journalists just write stories about what other people do, and editorializing those stories, which gets you on the huffing Post, in fact turns a report into, again ... fiction, or at best, an opinion.

    In both case, their roles in society are derivative.

    I'm no better, of course. I just wonder why we give these people such credence. Everyone should be listening to me instead of Meryl Streep, Joy Ann Reid, and Chuck Todd. :clapping:
     
  2. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Yep, that Spruce Goose was a classic of aeronautical design brilliance. As a boat it was fine; as an aeroplane, not so much!
     
  3. Fisherguy

    Fisherguy Well-Known Member

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    Unless they're Republican actors Ronnie Raygun and Arnold Schwarzenegger, right?
     
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Trump is an actor......
     
  5. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Politics has often been described as showbiz for the ugly. They share a common trait - an out of control self-idolation. That's why Meryl Streep has to preach to you about her political views because she knows how stupid you are compared to her royal self.

    They all have the superiority gene. Every one.
     
  6. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Oh, right, "pretending to be a president"? That's funny, if already hackneyed, and I don't agree.

    Trump makes real decisions in the real world that have real consequences. They may all be "bad" in your view, but they are very much real.

    Before he was elected, his buildings and his skating rink and even his failed casinos were also real. It isn't easy to create those things, no matter how much money you inherit. (What has Paris Hilton built?)
     
  7. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Yes, but it actually worked, my snarky friend. As did his H-1 racer. By the way, do your airplanes work? I don't refer to toys or models.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Is he making real decisions? Or, are Tillerson, Pence and Mattis controlling his nuttiness?
     
  9. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    First of all, entrepreneurs and designers of planes contribute nothing substantial. Entrepreneurs are completely dependent on human hands of real people who do the manual work of getting that oil out. What do designers do but sketch some lines. They don't do anything. It is the people who are on the assembly line, that build the actual planes. I can minimize the accomplishments of people doing their jobs just as easily as you can.

    But the point is that we do not judge what people say about politics as worthy or not of serious consideration, based on whether their occupation is 'derivative' or creative, or labor producing or capital producing because it is irrelevant to the judgement process. We do so because what they say makes sense in the framework of their argument. I don't care if it is an actor or journalist or a paper boy or a waiter or a multi millionaire businessman that presents the opinion. I care about the relationship of veracity, reason and logic to their conclusions. If what they say makes sense, then what they say makes sense whatever their day job may be.
     
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Hmmm, I don't know. Washington, Madison, Lincoln, Garfield, Coolidge, Truman, Eisenhower, Ford, Reagan, Carter? I don't think any of them were really in love with themselves.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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  12. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would bring up Calvin Coolidge seriously? The guy could barely write his name on the ground with a stick.
     
  13. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Well, you and I sure have different definitions of "substantial." Howard Hughes was able, if he had wanted to, to mine and cut metal and drive rivets and sweep the floor and all the other essential jobs at Hughes Aircraft. And I'm happy to give Rosie the Riveter, in tis connection, her credit, and certainly more credence than Rosie O'Donnell, another "star."

    But the reverse isn't true. Neither Rosie can design or test-fly an airplane that actually works. Nor can they design and build drill bits that extract wealth from miles under the Earth's surface. Howard Hughes could do all those things. He was an exceptional individual by any measure. He created jobs for others. Interestingly, he didn't spend all day tweeting about the perceived deficiencies of various presidents. If I'm not mistaken, he wasn't even affiliated with any political party. Why? Likely because he knew his limitations and minded his own business. Would that journalists and actors knew theirs

    But the point isn't to lionize Howard Hughes in particular -- the point is that movie stars' and journalists' political opinions, Clint Eastwood/Pat Bushnan on the right and Susan Sarandon/Joy Ann Ried on the left, get a disproportionate measure of attention and credence. Maybe not by you, but by many. Why?
     
  14. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    I don't like calling comments stupid, but yours qualifies, for you confuse reticence with illiteracy. Coolidge was a lawyer from the State of Vermont with a higher than average IQ, even for Presidents. He graduated cum laude from Amherst. Illiterate? I don't think so.

    Anyway I only mentioned Coolidge to refute the suggestion above that politicians are all vain.
     
  15. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    Indeed. And then Howard Jr. ran it very, very successfully. As he did with Hughes aircraft, which he founded himself and employed tens of thousands of people. What actor or journalist can say the same? Who here can say the same?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wrong.
     
  16. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Guess what. Jobs in production and manual labor require skill sets and mental or physical attributes that some people do not have. that's why some of them decide a specific job will not work out and quit, and why others get fired or reduced hours by their bosses.

    I am not sure at all that the weird, misanthropic and obsessive compulsive Hughes could in fact work in a factory for more than a month and do the jobs at assembly line work. He'd be fired by week two for poor and inconsistent attendance and lousy production numbers because he is ill suited for that work and cannot in fact produce results.

    Second, your original post suggests that we should not give much credence to the opinions of actors and journalists because what they did for an occupation was quote 'derivative'. My point is that how much credence we give their opinions should have little to do with any of that.

    You are confusing the attention we give to someone's opinion, with the credibility and respect we give of that opinion once we hear it. Celebrities get a lot of attention for everything they do including their dress, their hair, who they sleep with and how they look in a swim suit. That does not mean that we see them as experts in coiffure, or clothing design, or sex therapists. Its entertaining to know stuff about celebrities, especially if it involves human conflict.
     
  17. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think my comment was stupid at all but I respect your opinion. Also all politicians are vain even Jimmy Carter. You know in his secret life he fancies himself a sex symbol of sorts.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Clint Eastwood had directed and produced many films.. That takes an amazing skill set. Trump is more of a promoter. He kept losing his shirt until he began licensing his name.
     
  19. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Yes, they do work. I believe you bought a few.
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The posturing uber rich (mostly white) Hollywood virtue signallers are comedy gold.

    Those who quietly get on with the practicalities of genuine progress are far more impressive. And yes, there are some in Hollywood who do just that. We don't know about it because they don't want us to know about it. They're not doing it for the ego strokes, they're doing it because they have the money and time to make a difference.
     
  21. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You bet it did! With 36 flight crew and passengers aboard. It was only flown once because, by that time, the military no longer needed H-4 (AKA Spruce Goose) but Hughes wanted to prove to a bunch of pin-heads (the press included) that the plane would perform as planned and also that it met its government specs..

    "Hughes returned to California during a break in the Senate hearings to run taxi tests on the H-4.[13] On November 2, 1947, the taxi tests began with Hughes at the controls. His crew included Dave Grant as copilot, two flight engineers, Don Smith and Joe Petrali, 16 mechanics, and two other flight crew. The H-4 also carried seven invited guests from the press corps and an additional seven industry representatives. Thirty-six were on board.[21]

    Four reporters left to file stories after the first two taxi runs while the remaining press stayed for the final test run of the day.[22] After picking up speed on the channel facing Cabrillo Beach the Hercules lifted off, remaining airborne at 70 ft (21 m) off the water at a speed of 135 miles per hour (217 km/h) for about one mile (1.6 km).[23] At this altitude the aircraft still experienced ground effect.[24] The brief flight proved to detractors that Hughes' (now unneeded) masterpiece was flight-worthy—thus vindicating the use of government funds.[25] The Spruce Goose, however, never flew again. Its lifting capacity and ceiling were never tested. A full-time crew of 300 workers, all sworn to secrecy, maintained the aircraft in flying condition in a climate-controlled hangar. The company reduced the crew to 50 workers in 1962 and then disbanded it after Hughes' death in 1976."
    [26]
     
  22. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I saw a clip of something creepy in the past week. Ashton Kutcher was testifying before someone or the other about child sex trafficking and was boo hooing as a parent of a child the same age but then he said he had seen video when overseas of the rape of a child. WTF was he watching a video of a rape of a child while overseas to begin with? There was something about that statement of watching the video that made me want to to hit him with a 2x4.
     
  23. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Howard Hughes was also basically insane by the time he was Trump's age. Hey, I guess you're right to make the comparison between the two of them. Carry on.
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The irony is Kutcher works in a profession where pedophilia is a normal part of life.
     
  25. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    So in effect that short hop, flying straight and level for a few hundred yards, proved nothing of substance. An interesting experiment nonetheless. As far as calling it a 'masterpiece' is concerned I would reserve such claims for aeroplanes which were thoroughly proven; the De Havilland Mosquito was one such aeroplane. Designed and built on a shoestring within wartime material and budgetary constraints, it proved itself as one of the outstanding aircraft of the war. With a phenomenal bomb load and the speed and agility of a single-engine fighter it was a magnificently inspired work of art.
     

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