At times, I thought the Clinton Campaign was trying to lose

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Balto, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    From a progressives mouth, at times I thought there was little effort being made toward rallying voters, raking in independents, and keeping what were historically blue states, blue. I remember when the Clinton campaign tried targeting Arizona, Utah, and even Texas. When I read that, I thought to myself, "What the hell are you doing? Why aren't you in Pennsylvania, or Colorado, or Michigan, or Ohio? If there are states to keep in check out in the West, its Colorado and Nevada!" At times, I believed honestly I would have made a better campaign strategist than Brian Fallon.

    Of course, on the flipside, this could be a elaborate plan by Democrats to expose the inherent absurdness the Republican Party stands for, give four years for sewer rats like Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence to show their true colors, then compare and contrast in 2019, into 2020. But, really? If the Clinton campaign wanted to win, why did they put their focus on reliably red states? Or pick weak VP choices like Tim Kaine, instead of a progressive darling like Warren who would have helped rally disenfranchised Bernie voters (like yours truly)? Less emphasis needed to be made on "First Woman President" and more on fixing the potholes in the Affordable Care Act, yet retain the ACA, and simplifying the naturalization process for immigrants. Those two focuses in themselves would be good enough for a homerun political ad.

    Too much emphasis was put on Trump's documented treatment of women as objects, and his tax returns we all know have Putin all over them. These acted as smokescreens if anything. There is a good chance Bernie would have won the election, he had Obama-sized crowds. His "socialist" label would have been no worse than Trump's "nationalist, brink of fascist" label. I can tell you the election map would have looked quite different, much more like 2012. And because "Sanders" isn't explosive baggage like "Clinton" is, the Republicans and Trump himself would have weak attacks at best. The argument, "Hey, a socialist isn't any worse than a nationalist" would have killed many of Trump's arguments on impact.

    So, was the Clinton Campaign trying to lose? I want to say no, but honestly I'm unsure. There's no debating Clinton would be better than Trump, and get more respect on the world stage, but her campaign was simply like a flopping fish. I still see lots of Bernie stickers and window signs wherever I go, and I just know right now we'd have Bernard Sanders in Washington D.C. The momentum and desire was there, you couldn't miss it if you tried.
     
  2. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    Clinton and co didn't put much effort into winning because the truly believed their own propaganda. All those polls saying how Hillary would win by an 80% or higher landslide. Hillary turley believed all that. Why bother going out and doing rallies and garnering voters when you already think it's in the bag? She probably figured it would be a waste of her valuable time going out and speaking to all those insignificant pion voters of hers.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    Even if one thinks its in the bag, they still need to go out and rally. Even if it turns out they are right, they might get even a higher return on election day. It's successful campaigning 101. There was a good chance Obama was going to win in 2012, yet he still rallied.
     
  4. ararmer1919

    ararmer1919 Banned

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    That would be true, but you do know we're talking about Hillary, right? Why should she waste her valuable time on the plebs when she already believed she would win hands down? She has far more important things to do then rally, like yoga or Adele concerts.
     
  5. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really doubt Hillary was trying to lose. But I do think she took it for granted she would win. Some would call this overconfidence. She was also outworked, out campaigned. Trump made 116 campaign appearances/rallies from 1 Sep through 8 Nov, Hillary made 71. Now some of those 71 were fund raisers in deep blue states of California and New York. In the decisive states Hillary was out campaigned/visits if you will in Wisconsin, 5 to zero. in Michigan 6-1 and in Pennsylvania 8-5. Even in Florida Trump made more visits and appearances 13-8.

    Trump never took a day off the campaign trail, Hillary took several. Hillary also ran a ton of political ads right here in Georgia. I think she thought she could run up the score on Trump that she forgot to cover her flank or portions of the so called blue wall. In other words, she took states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania for granted while trying to win Arizona and Georgia.

    Another thing I noticed is in those decisive Trump went around addressing the fears, apprehensions of the blue collar, even union workers. Hillary just promised to be Obama's third term and totally ignored the fears and apprehensions of the working middle class. In the end where Obama won the union household vote by 18 points over Romney, Clinton won them by just 8. The exit polls didn't break down the union households between public and private unions. But if I had to make a guess is Clinton easily won the public service unions by a huge margin where Trump won the private sector union vote. Workers don't give a darn about which bathroom a transgender uses when they fear the loss of their job may be right around the corner.

    No, I am pretty sure Hillary didn't try to lose. I do think she thought she was next in line for the presidency and didn't work all that hard at winning. Perhaps she believed all the media hype that said she was going to win. Bill Clinton felt the change, felt that she could lose and told Hillary such about a week to go before the election. But Hillary ignored him and stayed with what her advisors were telling her to do. Perhaps if she had listened to hubby Bill, she would be president today. Bill has more empathy in picking up the people mood that Hillary.

    One other thing I noticed. Although there were less Trump supporters, they were energetic, enthusiatic, willing to go to the four corners of the earth for him. For Hillary supporters, they were more ho hum, apathetic, less inspired. Hillary just couldn't ignite that fire the way Trump could. Trump also won the independent vote, 46-42 over Clinton with 12% voting third party. Some of the words independents threw around describing Hillary were aloof and comes across as a phony. Fake smile and laugh were a couple of others. It was like Hillary was stuck in the woman's lib movement of the 70's instead of running today.

    But the bottom line is no, she wasn't trying to lose. I believe she took winning for granted. After all the DNC and Democratic state party leaders ensured along with the super delegates she was guaranteed the nomination. Problem was in the general, there were no super electors to save her. Which brings me to my last thought speaking of the primaries. In the general election Hillary won the Democratic base vote 89-8 over Trump. But among Sanders supporters who thought they were shafted by Hillary and the Democratic Party, she won Sanders supporters 65-22 over Trump with 13% voting third party. Compare those figures to the Democratic base figures.

    Union households and Sanders supporters may very well be two of the big reasons she lost along with a complacent attitude. Not trying to lose.
     
  6. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hillary thought she had it won months before the election which had a lot to do with her lackadaisical attitude. She was watching too many of legacy media news shows and talkers praising her. She likely didn't feel she needed to exert herself campaining against Trump.
     
  7. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    The underlying problem is this. Where Trump promised a wall, a ban on Muslim entry, cutting America off from the rest of the world, Hillary could have offered productive solutions that not only counteract Trump's proposals, but advance America forward. Trump wants to build a southern border, a productive solution is simplifying and making the naturalization process easier for immigrants, Trump wants to ban Muslims from entering the country, a productive method Hillary could have offered is to work with Silicon Valley companies from day one to build a universal vetting process, in cooperation with other countries, so someone can be vetted as simple as a index fingerprint. And all the while, express the importance of why globalism is needed for America to accurately adapt and compete on the world stage.

    See how such a platform would put Trump on the defense?
     
  8. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

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    When you say "there's no debating Clinton would be better than Trump", 84% of the 3,112 counties nationwide disagreed with you on election day. So your statement is blatantly false.

    Regarding the rest of your post, Hillary lost because she was Hillary; and Trump simply outworked her, and outsmarted her. What the media set up to be a coronation for Hillary morphed into her defeat instead. Her campaign became overconfident, complacent, lazy, distracted, and everything else that would cause a person to lose an endeavor they are seeking to win.

    Unless you are a feminist, progressive, or open-border globalist, Hillary had no message that resonated to the rest of the country; but Trump did, and he exploited it enough to flip six states red; Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

    Like most liberals, the things you complain about most in others are the things you exemplify the most in yourselves. You should consider that reality if you want to do better in 2020 and beyond.
     
  9. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see it, but no one reads the platform. I think one needs to gauge the mood of the country, not just the northeast and west coast. The wall, outside of Trump supporters, did anyone take him seriously? I didn't. But then I wasn't a Trump supporter or voter, neither was I a Hillary supporter or voters. I ranted and raved against both.

    Trump may have won on his persona which I thought sucked. Quite a lot of people vote on persona or how they view the candidates coming across. Trump acted like a 5th grade schoolyard bully and threw temper tantrums like a 3 year old via twitter. Clinton was dull and boring. I trusted neither and voted for neither, I voted against both. 8 million of us voted against both whereas 1.5 million voted third party in 2012. Trump had no substance as far as I was concerned and Hillary's being a third Obama term didn't turn me on either.

    I really detested both candidates, I use the phrase I or word I as I don't want to be seen as speaking for the other 8 million of us who refused to vote for Trump or Clinton or choose between them. I think we all underestimated the anti-Clinton vote or those who disliked her more than Trump. I had around February resigned myself to a Hillary Clinton Presidency as I could see no way for Trump to win. I was wrong as wrong as one could get.

    Don't worry, I foresee because most people will be fed up with Trump's persona that the Democrats take back congress in 2018 and with a decent candidate, not Hillary win easily in 2020.
     
  10. Conviction

    Conviction Well-Known Member

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    Donald Trump's work ethic is unmatched. He was full of energy and he energized the people.
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Take the door off your house and start taking care of everyone who wanders in.

    Get back to me in a few years and explain how the experience "advances you forward".
     
  12. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    Progressive? C'mon, your joking. You're a disgrace to the progressive name.

    The old school fascist hypocritical dem progressives have to learn to accept that change does not always come about only through their radical and narrow minded views. Now the old school fascist dem progressives say 'they don't want that much change' and want to go backwards to the old school politicians they are used to. Face the facts old school fascist dem progressives...the reps have shown themselves to be as 'new school progressive' as it gets!

    The poor 'dem progressives'...they put all their hope in 'change' as a way to make our world perfect. Nothing is ever good enuf for the progressive. Their champion, Obama, gave us lots of progressive change...especially in the area of trying to force-feed us his homosexual agenda. I'm sure it was a proud day for progressives when Obama had the Whitehouse bathed in colors from lights replicating the homosexual flag on the day he and his SCOTUS stooges rammed homosexual marriage through.

    Well, through Obama's radical changes, our society progressed enough to elect Trump. Without the work of progressive Obama we would never have been able to have a new school progressive prez like Trump

    pro·gres·sive
    prəˈɡresiv/
    adjective: progressive

    1.happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step.
    "a progressive decline in popularity"

    synonyms: continuing, continuous, increasing, growing, developing, ongoing, accelerating, escalating; More
    gradual, step-by-step, cumulative

    ◦archaic
    engaging in or constituting forward motion.

    2.(of a group, person, or idea) favoring or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
    "a relatively progressive governor"

    ◦favoring or promoting change or innovation.
    "a progressive art school"

    synonyms: modern, liberal, advanced, forward-thinking, enlightened, enterprising, innovative, pioneering, dynamic, bold, avant-garde, reforming, reformist, radical; informalgo-ahead
    "progressive views"

    antonyms: conservative, reactionary
     
  13. SillyAmerican

    SillyAmerican Well-Known Member

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    Donald Trump had zero chance of being elected. That was a given. The press folks believed it. Hillary Clinton believed it. Heck, most Republicans believed it. Unfortunately for Hillary, voters in a good chunk of the country didn't believe it. Thank you for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts...

    Yup. There it is. The funny thing is that Bill Clinton told his wife this, and she ignored him.

    Exactly. When you're assured of your coronation, you do not need to waste time on silly things like campaigning.

    Yup.

    Yes. While Hillary was keeping out of sight, Donald Trump was hopping across the country delivering five or six speeches a day at the close of the election cycle. One person worked towards the results they sought, and it wasn't Hillary Clinton...
     
  14. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When are left wing democrats going to finally admit that they were hoodwinked by the lying MSM? They fed democrats fake new and fake polls, and the democrats believed them.

    If anyone should be against the MSM it should be democrats. The MSM was a HUGE part of the reason Hillary lost. What a hoot!!!!!!!
     
  15. Conviction

    Conviction Well-Known Member

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    Democratic party is fractured with its corrupt core and lunatic fringe left base.

    Perez was a lock, he's just another relic of the same campaign machine that just lost, corrupt to the bone.
     
  16. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    When you deliberately conflate illegal immigration which is a crime punishable by deportation and legal immigration which naturalization process is already reasonably straightforward, you unwittingly answer the question you ask in the title of this thread.... Hillary did not try to lose, it's just that the dems/libs/progs are so confused, intellectually dishonest and out of touch that they are pretty much unelectable.
     
  17. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    I agree with you but I do think the core wasTrump tapped into an anger that both dems and repubs missed or under played. The thing to remember is she did beat Trump in the popular election
     
  18. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    No the thing to remember is that she lost in the Electoral College which is ALL THAT MATTERS, unless one wants the President elected by California.
     
  19. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    actually trump is a loser with the american public.
     
  20. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But then the crooked serial liar Hillary is the REAL loser. Thank Heavens. "Her turn" and I have a vagina didnt cut much ice with real Americans.
     
  21. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    With weak, quick-fix promises.

    Come on, you know Obama promising to shut down Guantamino Bay is more realistic than Mexico paying for a wall. Trump mastered the human psyche - repeat something absurd enough times, the subconscious of people will begin to take it for face value. When Trump played on the fears of people following San Bernardino and Paris, Clinton should have been coming out with a vetting process that utilizes the technology of today. So, while Trump was busy blabbering away over banning entry to the US, Clinton could have been running with something that actually guarantees progress in the right direction.
     
  22. ScottR2

    ScottR2 Active Member

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    Clinton and the democratic party decided that old white men are no longer relevant to the country.
    Old white men did something that only minorities normally do. They voted as a block and guess what? There's a lot of them (us). We aren't dead yet!
     
  23. Fisherguy

    Fisherguy Well-Known Member

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    Too much hubris from the Clinton camp. Their office in Iowa City was run by sorority gals....a few of them knocked on doors, but not many, and they had little to say. Didn't even notice the Bernie sign in my yard. Come caucus night Feb. 2, Clinton wasn't even viable, with no delegates pledged in some of our city precincts. She lost by 59 percent in our county. Hillary barely stole Iowa and Missouri. Bernie won 23 states and she was clobbered in Michigan.
     
  24. monkrules

    monkrules Well-Known Member

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    Dems keep talking about how Hillary won the popular vote. Who cares? She lost the electoral vote and that is all that matters. Everyone knew what the rules were.

    Hillary, imo, has always been a horrible candidate. She’s arrogant, entitled, and a LIAR. People don’t like her or trust her. Then she has all the “gate” baggage, and the scummy things the world has seen her and Billdo engage in. She (and Bill) absolutely suck in too many ways to count.

    When the time came, I actually voted for her, but it made me sick to do so. She was the only alternative to trump, who I believe to be a worthless bully and loud-mouthed weenie. An unstable, ugly orange, scab on America’s @ss.

    In the old days I was a democrat (I'm now a registered Independent). I left the party decades ago because I HATE their position on immigration. I also hate the way they push diversity and a lot of other things. As we’ve seen in this election there are loads of people in this country who hate the way immigration has been able to get completely out of control. I’d like illegal immigration stopped, period. I have no problem with trump rounding up and deporting millions of people who broke into our country. I would also like to see LEGAL immigration cut way back. Let the immigrants who are already here have some time to assimilate. I’m sick of running into people who can speak NO English, at all. Further, I’ve been around a lot of people (illegals) who make no effort to learn English. They don’t have to, there are zillions of other illegals they can interact with, and overall, they get along fairly well without English. I’ve even had a few of these clowns get angry with me because I couldn’t speak Spanish.

    But regarding the election, I feel Hillary had NO message. Nothing. She was the same old hag we’ve come to know and detest. She, again, thought she was “owed” the presidency because, well, it was her turn, dammit. She avoided the press, and her speaking events couldn’t fill a toilet stall. Why? Because she lacked energy, enthusiasm, authenticity, and charisma. She was the pits. The only candidate worse than her was trump. And HE only won because he worked ten times harder (and, of course, because she, is Hillary). And, no matter what anybody says, at least trump showed up. He was in the race to win. Another big factor is that many Americans are just sick to their stomachs of the Bushes and Clintons. I wish they would all just go tf away, and stay away.

    In my view, the Clintons have done everything possible to totally wreck the Democratic party. They amassed huge influence over the party. Apparently owned the DNC and installed that bimbo Wasserman Shultz as it’s head to do their bidding. They raised a lot of money — and they SQUANDERED boatloads of money trying to get Hillary elected. Those resources could have been better used in almost any other way. The Clintons apparently wanted to go down in the history books at any cost (husband and wife presidents and all that garbage). That “cost” icluded the near destruction of the party. Republicans now own the federal government (House, Senate and soon, the Supreme Court). They also own the vast majority of state legislatures. The Democrats are in smoking ruins, thanks to old corrupt leaders like the Clintons who have squandered every chance to advance the party by choosing personal gain instead, at every opportunity.

    I hate trump, and most republican politicians. But, honestly, I hate the Democratic “leadership” just as much.
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    All of these conservatives, so kindly telling us liberals what we have to do to win. And surprise, the solution is that we all turn conservative. hooda thunk?

    For the umpteenth time WE WON, we just didn't win by the wide enough margin we needed to overcome the Republicans natural lock on certain traditional groups having an electoral advantage

    A pure cliché but we didn't mobilize our voters enough, we have constituents in rural areas too but a lot of them stayed home. That won't matter in 2018 and I hope will not happen again in 2020, not with what happened this time as a lesson. (I just hope that Trump isn't able to prevent there BEING an election in 2020)
     

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