This seems to have degenerated into a slugfest, but anyway, the more I
learn about Bush's plans, the more he's sure to get my vote!

P.S.
As to the upcoming election, I believe that history is going to repeat itself.
He won reelection as Governer of Texas by a landslide, and the same thing
will happen here.

__________________
http://www.freedomswatch.org/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx

When religion ruled the world...wasn't that the Dark Ages?

Sorry to break it to you but if you vote for Bush, you are going to be voting for a loser. As to the upcoming election, history will not repeat itself. Bush will be taken out of office. It may or may not be a landslide for Kerry, but mark my words, Bush is not winning this election. Better enjoy him while you can because come November he is out.

Thanks STEKIM. I appreciate the words and I feel that they were pretty accurate as to my general viewpoints.

MPotter,
Without further ado, I agree that we should "bury THIS hatchet". I retract the negative and demeaning things I said to you.
Given our apparent political tendencies, I am certain there will be an abundance of "Hatchets" to occupy our time and efforts in the future.

By the way. I am unalterably AGAINST the so called "Defense of Marriage" Amendments to BOTH the U.S. and Utah Constitutions. BUT, "I am not Gay or a (*)(*)(*)," as you so ineloquently stated it. LOL!!!

Now DON'T take this the wrong way! But I happen to have a son that was born in 1976. He is an Ex-Army Ranger medic who served in Somalia and was in the downed Blackhawk during that fiasco. He and I do NOT agree on a LOT of Political issues!! But we still get along.

I can remember MY political and social opinions when I was in my mid 20's. My current viewpoints are considerably evolved since then. It is a fact of life that "evolution" of political views takes place with increased life experience. And I expect my son's views to change over the next 35-40 years. Anyone whose opinions do NOT change over time, is someone who is so blinded by their own infallibility they arrogantly refuse to even consider alternatives. These people usually wind up "Bitter Old Men"!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the future!

Oh yeah, I can see that there could be and will be future "hatchets" for you and I to battle out, as I'm sure they could be issues we totally agree on. I suppose that's only natural. My father once told me there were three things you should never discuss with others. 1. money 2. religion and 3. politics. I suppose I took his advice on the first two, but I'll be (*)(*)(*)(*)ed if I agree with him on the third. Sometimes I think he is right though you know?

Look at that, we have something else we agree apon already! No need to argue on this point then right?

I'm sorry to hear that your son was subjected to those events. I hope he came out of it without too many scar (physically and mentally). My father and I disagree more than I ever imagined. He is going to be voting for Bush, and I dispise him for it. His whole point is that he believes with a democrat in office we will pull out of Iraq. I keep telling him this is unlikely to happen, and that the most that will happen is that Kerry would bring in other nations to help aleviate the pressures and allow us to bring some boys home. He doesn't believe that, so he is voting for Bush. We cancel eachother out.

I'm sure my views will change, based on my needs as an individual as I get older. That is eventual I suppose. I really don't see my main liberal viewpoints changing however such as my views on war, civil rights, abortion, etc. We'll see I guess. I have to be honest with you...at times, I consider myself a Bitter young man. When I see the things Bush has done with our country that anger me...I get very Bitter.

In the meantime, I think I'll hold on to my current viewpoints.

My son was injured in a deep sea diving incident on a subsequent mission as a medic (he was also qualified for deep sea rescue). He was blown to the surface too quickly by an inadvertent explosion and developed the Bends. He will wear a pain medication patch for the rest of his life. As a man, I am VERY proud of him! But we STILL don't agree on a lot of issues. And I thank you for your thoughts.

You have given us a brief insight to your world and thought processes. I would like to offer some background on mine, if you don't mind. It might aid you in evaluating my opinions in the future.

Born and raised in Texas through the 40's & 50's. Normal upbringing in a moderately Conservative Southern family. Very proud of my Texas and Southern heritage and the independent self reliance I was taught. But even during the 50's I would have been considered slightly more "Liberal" than many of my counterparts. This period was marked by constant concern over the chances of a "Nukular" war with the Soviets. It was also still in the depths of Segregation and "blacks to the back of the bus." Living immersed in a particular culture is MUCH more insightful than only reading about it in a history book 50 years later.
During the turbulent 60's, when I was in MY 20's , I lived in Birmingham Alabama. The days of Vietnam War, the March on Selma, the Kennedy assassination, the church bombings that killed innocent black children, the race riots, the Anti-War demonstrations, George C. Wallace's Alabama governorship, Martin Luther King's efforts, and the Civil Rights Law's passage.

Again I stress, the dry pages of History books many years later, do NOT fully impart the experience of living that history. Books can not submerge you in the atmosphere of other people's feelings. They can only list events and try to define the causes and repercussions of those events. They can only barely and superficially give you insight into the thoughts and feelings of the participants in those events.


I spent half of the 70's back in Texas (Always a Texan!!! )
Then moved to Utah in the mid 70's. The MOST Conservative and MOST Republican state in the Union! I have been called a "Flaming Liberal" here, which made me laugh my Arse off!
We have to ALWAYS keep in mind that terms like Conservative and Liberal are TOTALLY Subjective and Relative!!!

Since then I have lived in California, Israel, England, and Tokyo. I have seen and participated in other cultures. I have lived experiences that have molded my character AND my outlook on life. I am NOT special. EVERYONE has a lifetime of "life experiences" that form the basis for their viewpoints. And no one's experience or "viewpoint" is necessarily "superior" to the next person's. But neither is ANYONE'S viewpoint irrelevant!

I can be dogmatic and impassioned about my opinions. AND, I can make the mistake of disregarding other's opinions when they differ from mine. I TRY to listen and weigh other's words. (I don't always succeed. As you know.) But I become totally intolerant of someone if they offer nothing but categorical absolutism and abuse to others who disagree with them. THAT is when I stop listening and start attacking. Neither wins in a situation like that.

I want to have respectful dialogs on this forum. But I tend to respond in the same manner that I am served. Respect brings respect. Abuse results in abuse. I think I am the same way in the Non-Virtual world.

ANYWAY! Enough of my Pontificating! I hope we exchange lots of opinions in the future.

The TRUTH is, I am NOT "Bitter" about ANYTHING! I have a completely positive outlook on life in general, and gratitude that I have been fortunate enough to live and experience what I have.

Tov Meod (Good Luck)