Why do They Hate us? - Page 2

DeadCenter · #11 (**permalink**) 05-10-2007, 02:02 PM

Although the rhetoric for the September 11 attacks may be linked to a US action that requires retaliation, the movement has (obviously) long been at war. What they hate about the West can be observed and interpreted by thousands of different experts...or you can just read the Al-Qaeda statements themselves.

Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology

Quote:

Declaration of Jihad:
Early 90s---In the early 1990s, Bin Laden emphasized his desire to secure the withdrawal of U.S. and other foreign troops from Saudi Arabia at all costs.

1996---Following a period of exile in Sudan and Afghanistan in which his radical views sharpened, Bin Laden issued a declaration of jihad against the United States in 1996 that signaled his emergence as an internationally recognizable figure and offered a full account of his main critiques of an enemy he described as the “alliance of Jews, Christians, and their agents.”

Adopting the sensitive historical and religious imagery of Islamic resistance to the European Crusades, Bin Laden condemned the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, criticized the international sanctions regime on Iraq, and voiced his opposition to U.S. support for Israel.

Post 2001---Osama Bin Laden’s longstanding threats to strike the United States came to fruition on September 11, 2001, and Bin Laden and others subsequently issued several statements confirming Al Qaeda’s responsibility for the attacks on New York and Washington. Following an established pattern, Bin Laden acknowledged his support for the hijackers and repeated his claim that strikes on American targets should be viewed by Muslims and Americans as a defensively motivated response to perceived American aggression in the Islamic world. Statements attributed to Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri since 2001 have promised further attacks and sought to justify Al Qaeda’s targeting of American and British civilians by arguing that Western societies are morally corrupt, recent democratic reform and human rights initiatives are insincere or bankrupt, and American and British civilians should be held accountable for the policies of their democratically elected governments in the Middle East that Al Qaeda finds objectionable or unjust.

Excuses starting from the Saudi situation, to that plus...sanctions on Iraq and our support for Israel, to that plus...“The West” being morally corrupt, democratic reform and human rights are insincere and bankrupt, and that all our civilians are at fault since it’s an elected government.

Of course one of the main reasons why they’d focus on the US and not other secular democracies is because we’re the largest and most influential obstacle to their “Three Foundation” ideological goals.

(same link)

Quote:

The Three Foundations. Al Qaeda’s strategic analysis and the operations of its affiliates continue to be supported by centrally planned ideological outreach activities. In a January 30, 2005 audiotape, for example, Ayman al Zawahiri identified “three foundations” of Al Qaeda’s political ideology and applied them to events in Iraq and elsewhere. The three principles were repeated in a June 2005 video message from Al Zawahiri. Al Zawahiri, who is regarded as Al Qaeda’s chief ideologue, described Al Qaeda’s core principles in sharp contrast to secular and religious reform ideologies voiced by other Muslims as well as recent U.S. support for democracy. This may signal an attempt by Al Qaeda’s leadership to renew and clearly define its goals as a basis for attracting new recruits and inspiring new affiliates. The “three foundations,” as outlined by Al Zawahiri are as follows:

1. The Quran-Based Authority to Govern.” According to Al Zawahiri, Al Qaeda supports the creation of an Islamic state governed solely by Sharia law. Secular government or “man-made” law is considered unacceptable and deemed contrary to Islamic faith.

2. “The Liberation of the Homelands.” Al Zawahiri argued that reforms and free elections will not be possible for Muslims without first establishing “the freedom of the Muslim lands and their liberation from every aggressor.” He also emphasized the importance of establishing control over the Middle East’s energy resources and described the Muslim world as “impotent and exposed to the Israeli nuclear arsenal.”

3. “The Liberation of the Human Being.” Al Zawahiri articulated a vision of a contractual social relationship between Muslims and their rulers that would permit people to choose and criticize their leaders but also demands that Muslims resist and overthrow rulers who violate Islamic laws and principles. He criticized hereditary government and identified a need “to specify the power of the Sharia based judiciary, and insure that no one can dispose of the people’s rights, except in accordance with this judiciary.”

All in all, I think if you ask the question: “What would end the Muslim hatred of America?”....the only answer (without Islamic reform of course) is...America turns into Sharia.

They despise our secular governments and our growing secular population.

Quote:

Al-Qaeda Training Manual: "Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it. The confrontation that Islam calls for with these godless and apostate regimes, does not know Socratic debates, Platonic ideals nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assassination, bombing, and destruction, and the diplomacy of the cannon and machine-gun."
(Al-Qaeda Training Manual, Available At:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/...lqaida_manual/, Accessed 9/5/06)

Quote:

Ayman al-Zawahiri: "So we must think for a long time about our next steps and how we want to attain it, and it is my humble opinion that the Jihad in Iraq requires several incremental goals: The first stage: Expel the Americans from Iraq. The second stage: Establish an Islamic authority or amirate, then develop it and support it until it achieves the level of a caliphate – over as much territory as you can to spread its power in Iraq … The third stage: Extend the jihad wave to the secular countries neighboring Iraq. The fourth stage: It may coincide with what came before: the clash with Israel, because Israel was established only to challenge any new Islamic entity."
(Complete Text Of Al-Zawahiri Letter To Al-Zarqawi, 7/9/05, Available At:
http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20051011_release.htm, Accessed 9/5/06)

klipkap · #12 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 09:17 AM

I agree with DeadCentre - don't speculate - go back to what El Quaida says. In this context I was surprised to see that no mention had been made in this thread of Osama's videotape of October 2004 in answering this question. So I dug around a bit and came up with the fact that there had been various translations. The following pretty much sums up this situation:
http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpo...amadisinfo.htm

It seems that the major US news networks left out much of the start of Osama's message. For me it was yet another example of the critical role of the US media in the International history (particularly) of the past decade, and helps to answer why many in the US think so differently to much of the rest of the world.

In particular the bit that had Europe all agog: Osama - You American people -- can you ask yourselves why [there is] all this hate against America and Israel.

And he immediately goes on to answer the question:
The answer is clear and very simple, that America has committed so many crimes against the nations of Muslims. America is the head of criminals by creating Israel -- this continuous crime for 50 years.
The government which is besieging the people of Iraq and killing them.

I presume in his first admittal of his role in 9/11 he would get his reasons right. But this meassage was witheld from the bulk of the US population by media editing.

Still, in my view the views of less radical people should rather be heard. I therefore find the following a much more more interesting question:

"Why have so many people who were formally friends and supporters of the US, turned against it in such huge numbers?"

The answer to that might be taken more seriously by the average "American" than the rantings of some bearded ego-head.

UnhappyMACNAM · #13 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Oh, if only they would LOVE us. Then we could declare victory.

America just wants to be loved.

Is that what this war is really about? Because if it is, we are going to lose.

Remember: A bullet in the mind is worth two in the heart.

hellvsheaven · #14 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cot1234";p=&quot

Probably because the American government are a bunch of terrorists whose only interest is raping their land and killing their people. Americans seem to think that this all started with 9/11. Look further back in time and you'll soon see some of the atrocities that the American government has supported and carried out on their people.

Well looking back, yes you could see America as a group of terrorists. Nevertheless, a terrorist act has been made against America...Such a big one, that war on terrorism couldn't of been avoided whether a Republican, or Democrat was in office.

klipkap · #15 (**permalink**) 11-05-2007, 12:15 AM

Indeed I can imagine that US citizens believe that 9/11 was a massive act of terrorism and that they would not have tolerated inaction. Rightly so, and most of the world would agree. Innocent lives were used to pay for political agendas.

So, in the same context, what was the now almost forgotten event when Clinton unleashed more ordenance on Serbia in one week than had been used during the entire WWII? Why is it almost forgotten? Is it because the innocent dead were not US citizens?

And of course, how does one define Bush II given the lies that we now know were used to convince a gullible public that Iraq needed immediate invasion because our security was at imminant risk. If Molosovic had done this, it would have headed his list of crimes against humanity.

One rule for us, another for the rest of them. One man's terrorist, another's freedom fighter. So why am I not surprised that 'Murkins react astounded when Arab radicals state that they are engaged in their own fight against terrorism. It just depends on where you are standing, and how much, or how little, you believe in the Single Standard.

greatamerican128 · #16 (**permalink**) 11-08-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer";p=&quot

Why do they hate us and how do we end the war?

http://www.chaostan.com/whydotheyhateus.html

Ha, I read the summary which reads "10 MILLION DEAD THATS WHY THEY HATE US" talk about self hating.

Never mind the fact that we are dealing with radical Islamic fascists which want to establish Islamic law across the world. Never mind the fact that their ultimate goal is to create an Islamic world. Never mind that they have schools for suicide bombers and Jihadists. This is a classic case of brainwashing an entire population and having an evil agenda, there is no other way to describe it.

Their war on America and western civilization is for the same reason why they tape street killings of their own citizens by Al-Qaeda. Because the whole world, in their minds, must conform to Islam and Islamic Sharia law. We shouldn't be hating ourselves, because most of our operations in the middle east were against terrorism and dictatorships. Now I will submit that the US makes mistakes as does every country but we do not have a policy of enforcing our beliefs through domestic and foreign murder of innocent people nor will our great country ever adopt such a policy.

justme · #17 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 05:50 PM

Why do other Countries hate us???? Look around this board and the answer is obvious.
We are in Afgan and Iraq to help those countries become "Free" like us. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Choice, Equal Rights etc...

We as Americans have many Freedoms they do not but those freedoms are limited to how we use them, when we use them, and why we use them.

We are told by the Gov't what when and where we can do it. For that matter certain Organizations have the same power. Take the newest Law in Ohio. If you put your hard earned money into a Buisness and work hard to keep it going , you pay the bills, Taxes etc.. on the buisness thanks to a certain organizations (Sorry can not remember the Name of them) You can no longer smoke in your buisness. You have to be at least 35 feet from Any door to the establishment.

we tell them that giving their citizens freedom of choice is the right thing to do yet Gays are not allowed to marry or adopt babies that Crack addicts dump in the trash.
There are so many reasons they hate us it is unreal but most Americans do not, will not, or do not want to admit to any of them.

fusenshi · #18 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 01:06 PM

We could debate the answer to this question from now to enternity and never make any progress. If you want to get to the source of the problem, and dare I say, solve it, you need to ask why they attack us.

I think it is pretty obvious that they hate us. I think it is also pretty obvious that based on the generations of people that been subjected to the indoctrination that we are the source of all evil, the people are bound to hate us. They have propaganda down to an art, and most people their have a hard time distinguishing between what is reality and what is fiction. They have cartoons that depict their heroes as being suicide bombers, while our children's cartoons are little sponges that wear pants.

We have an ideology that is direct contradication, and to the fanatical branches, there is absolutely no compromise.

This is all fairly obvious, however, I don't care if they hate us. I don't care what they teach their children. I don't care about their ideology. Why they hate us doesn't really matter from my point of view. We will not make them love us, so we shouldn't even try.

The question to be answered here is "Why do they attack us?". People hate each other each and every day, yet they aren't starting wars and killing each other because of it. I would even offer that wars are not fought over hate. Wars are fought to further political agendas.

The problem here is that, politically, we do the things in which they accuse us of. They say that we occupy their countries, we do. They say that our corporations with help from our government exploit their resources, they do (although I will add that their own leaders exploit it as well). They claim that we want to change the way they want to live, we invade their country to westernize them.

The list really goes on and on. In my opinion, with a change of our foreign policy, they would still hate us, but they would hate us from afar. Without giving them the political reasons to attack us, I doubt the leaders calls for suicide missions would not fall on deaf ears. We should tend to ourselves, leave them alone, and make sure that they understand that if they ever act on their hate towards us, we will make the consequences so gruesome that they would not even think about attacking us. After all, I don't believe their leaders believe what they tell their people. They use their propaganda to gain support. The leaders will act in their own self interests of maintaining power, and if they thought that being involved with an attack on this country would undermine that, they would be hesitant.

At any rate, this is my opinion on this situation.

Dragon · #19 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:33 PM

Why do they hate us? It is obvious, the ones that follow the terrorist groups do not like our life style or social values. They also do not like how we have the power and money. Sorry these are the same people that also do not like that I, joe schmoe, do not believe in their god. And you people wonder why they(the terrorists) hate us.

kuta777 · #20 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 07:07 AM

I like your ideas truth-bringer. I love this countries principles but not the people that are running it right now. They hate us because of our smug leaders who think we own them and always know whats best. They also hate, as I do, that there are far to many IDIOTS in this country who take everything for granted and are really are worthless people. I hate to say it but our country is going right down the toilet.

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