Which man doesn't salute at the tomb of the unknown soldier? - Page 13

Mayerling · #**121** (**permalink**) 11-14-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo2

As I understand it, putting one's hand over one's heart at the playing of the national anthem, or the flying of the flag, is a matter of personal choice and convention in the USA. I do not believe there is a statute or article of common law which dictates such actions.

These are cultural habits, no more than that. There are older people who cross themselves whenever a funeral procession passes, but to not do so does not signify a lack of respect for the dead.

To most Brits and Europeans, the gesture of placing one's hand on one's heart is a melodramatic and mawkish one; something we would be embarrassed to perform. I automatically stood and showed respect for the flag when it was raised, or the national anthem when it was played in the USA. But I would not have dreamed of putting my hand over my heart. In not so doing, I showed no lack of respect for America and Americans.

It is an insane notion to suggest that the President of the United States of America (of whatever political inclination he may be,) despises the country he has overcome enormous challenges to preside over. The fact that his level of patriotism may go deeper than a $5 lapel badge, indicates nothing more than he has decent dress sense. Anyone who thinks these meaningless outward signs of cheesy 'patriotism' unerringly indicate a genuine concern for one's compatriots, is a out of touch with reality. He may simply not care for the "Look at me, aren't I a patriotic American!" look.

You, as a citizen of another country, would not be expected to do so, in fact, should not do so ( place your hand over your heart during the raising of the flag or playing of the US national anthem). An american usually does so. H

Ziggy Stardust · #**122** (**permalink**) 11-14-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogger

You can also see the man in uniform to his left telling him to place his hand over his heart. Guess he couldn't figure that out on his own.

You don't hear what the military officer who is next to Obama says, but it is some extremely short command after which everyone in the video, including the 100 or so people in the background, all salute or put their hand over their heart at the same time. Obviously it is just part of the ceremony to wait for the Officer to say whatever he did, before doing this.

Leo2 · #**123** (**permalink**) 11-14-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayerling

a stupid norm. I question anyone who needed the excuse of 9/11 to become patriotic. where were they with their so called patriotism prior to 9/11? Frankly, I was sick to death seeing all those flag lapel pins on everyone. Stepford politicians. Why weren't they wearing them before if they were so patriotic. Newly found patriotism in the wake of a national disaster doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

I believe you to be very perspicacious. Patriotism, as far as I am concerned, is a love of one's country, and a willingness to sacrifice for it. It, like spirituality, is a private emotion, and one does not literally wear it upon one's sleeve. A couple of quotations from Shakespeare always spring to my mind, when witnessing melodramatic and loud displays of 'patriotism'.

One comes from Macbeth: It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

And the other from Hamlet: The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

People who genuinely care for you, like your parents, do not find it necessary to say so daily, but are immediately there when you need help. Similarly, someone who generally eschews patriotic displays, or may even deride them, will often be the man who is first to volunteer when his country is in real danger.

The experience of the Battle of Britain taught us Brits that. The laid back and decidedly non-patriotic young men of Eton and Oxford, (amongst many others) willingly gave their lives over the green fields of Kent and Surrey, at an average age of 19 - 20.

Ferris · #**124** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 02:29 AM

Note to mods: delete if you want, but I've seen tons of Bush flipoff pics here.

Frogger · #**125** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayerling

a stupid norm. I question anyone who needed the excuse of 9/11 to become patriotic. where were they with their so called patriotism prior to 9/11? Frankly, I was sick to death seeing all those flag lapel pins on everyone. Stepford politicians. Why weren't they wearing them before if they were so patriotic. Newly found patriotism in the wake of a national disaster doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

Feelin gs of patriotism always increase during a time of war and 9/11 was a declaration of war by Islamicist. Of course there would be an increase in the number of flags worn and flown, just as there was an increase in the number of yellow ribbons when the people at the American Embassy in Iran were taken hostage.

Iriemon · #**126** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogger

You can also see the man in uniform to his left telling him to place his hand over his heart. Guess he couldn't figure that out on his own.

That's classic. You start a bash Obama thread based on an outright fabrication, write several posts bashing him based on an outright lie, and when then lie exposed, rather than retracting your statements or acknowledging your error, you just make up another lie.

Your post makes my observation here seem pretty perceptive.

Which man doesn't salute at the tomb of the unknown soldier?

Iriemon · #**127** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

I think more telling, and an indirect answer to your question, is how many who have used this factual distortion to bash Obama will now come forward to retract their disparagements.

Maybe we will see a couple, but I doubt many. Because I kind of doubt that some who have written posts in this thread bashing Obama really care if when they see an article or video bashing Obama it is the truth or not.

Not one came forward to retract their posts, even when they have uncontroverted proof that the OP was a lie. The author of the OP not only didn't retract but tried to excuse one lie by making another.

Why check for the truth when you don't care if it's true or not.

Taxpayer · #**128** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

Not one came forward to retract their posts, even when they have uncontroverted proof that the OP was a lie.

I'll be happy to do so. I would like to give the original poster the benefit of the doubt, and assume his post was in error rather than a lie. But if any of my comments or the concern I expressed were offensive, unfair or inaccurate--I apologize.

Ferris · #**129** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxpayer

I'll be happy to do so. I would like to give the original poster the benefit of the doubt, and assume his post was in error rather than a lie. But if any of my comments or the concern I expressed were offensive, unfair or inaccurate--I apologize.

When errors are consistent enough, the word for that is willful negligence.

farra · #**130** (**permalink**) 11-15-2009, 10:23 AM

An essay on Obama - giving pause for thought. The author writes my feelings far better than I can hope to.

http://www.jeffhead.com/obama-time.htm

Quote:

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is an avowed socialist, openly going about applying abject marxist dogma and principle to our free market and our nation as a whole.

If anyone doubts this, they need only listen to Obama's interview with NPR before he sought national office. In that intreveiw he openly crticizes the Warren Court for not going far enough in seeking "redsitribution of wealth", and indicates that the Constittuion stood in their way and then discusses the various ways to get around it...which he is now implementing.

His view of the Constitution is not one that accepts or respects the intent of the founders of this nation, or the time proven fundamental principles the Constitution was based upon, rather, in his own words...

"I have to side with Justice Breyer's view of the Constitution--that it is not a static but rather a living document and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world."
The fact is, Obama doesn't care about what you or I or anyone else thinks, including the founders. He is an abject marxist ideologue and he now has his mechanism in place.

He didn't go to the Whitehouse to be popular, he went there to bring fundmental change and he has been going about it very effectively since becoming President.

He and his cohorts caused the economic crisis that helped usher him into the Presidency. They hate the free market and they hate fundamental republican principle and the moral values that provide its foundation. Since being elected they have methodically and with a will attacked these institutions and harmed them terribly.

It is their intent to bring them down and build a marxist command economy on their ashes. Evrything they are doing reflects this. From the stimulus, to the bail-outs, to the health care monstrosity, to Cap & Trade, FOCA, and on and on.

And all of what he has implemented are producing success from Obama's point of view. They are accomplishing exactly what he wants...he does not want to repair the economy, the auto industry, the banking and credit industries, energy, health care, etc., etc. as most Americans would define repairing them. He wants to fix it as in "the fix is in", as in controlling it.

And that is exactly what he is doing.

Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and their cohorts will lie, blow smoke, deceive, cajole, and give as many Presidential speeches, presentations, addresses to congress, etc. as it takes to draw this out so he can continue progressing towwards his goals. When you understand this about him and his administration and the cohorts in the House and Senate...everything comes into focus.

Luckily, their over-reach on health care has awakened a large part of the American citizenry.

Because health care effects everyone, and because the American people intrinsically know that government bureaucracy makes things less efficient, the American people are downloading the Dem Health Care Plan HERE and elsewhere and reading it for themselves.

They are also reading the cited quotes of the main architect of the plan and Chief Advisor to Obama on Health Care HERE and elsewhere, and seeing the context of the plan from the designer of it.

So, when other Americans and conservatives like Sarah Palin declares that the PLan is a monstrosity and that it is downright evil, they know for themselves that it is true.

Thus, the American people (the proverbial giant) is waking up and the question is now can they wake up quickly enough, can they make such an out and out hue and cry and force enough democratic and RINO representatives to be more afraid of then, the constituents for their political life than they are of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama and stop the Health Care plan.

Then, can they maintain that energy long enough to completely route the democrats, despite ACORN and voter fraud, in 2010?

I believe we can. And I hope and pray that the events in DC of 912 punctuate this and make it clear.

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