http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...la-Protest.php

There seems to be rioting in the streets in Venezuela tonight. Things are getting worse even as we speak. The whole thing appears to be over this piece, a series of laws that would basically give Chavez pretty unlimited power:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/lat...ks_amendments/

Chavez is an interesting character. There's a couple of Latin American countries that seem to like him (a little), but most of 'em hate his guts. There's people in every country, though, that like him.

So I mean, obviously he figures he's got a weapon with this oil thing, and he's trying to get control of it. What's you take on Chavez? My take is, he's just another corrupt Latin dictator, and all that money's gonna go right into his pockets. The "socialism" thing is just a thinly veiled disguise for greed.

Thoughts?

It maybe only an attempt to take dictatorial control, but this lawyer who is there doesn't think so.

"Today the Venezuelan people have a pencil in their hands to write their own history, and it's not going to be the history of the elite," said pro-Chávez lawmaker Earle Herrera.

The elite have had run of the country thanks to past capitalism that bankrupted and corrupted the country. Maybe socialism will work better for these people facing a One World Order.

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One Tin Soldier Walked Away....................

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...tionkill-1.jpg

Someone needs to say.
"Good morning Mr President. I was so surprised at your relinquishiment of power."


Heres hoping. If not he will be for life. He and more importantly his Party dominate that nation so completely it is roughly akin to Germany 1934 in party dominance of power--->
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...ne/becomes.htm



With the changes his Party has made to Venezuela though even shooting him isn't going to end it.
They will mourn and replace him with another military despot from the Party.
The one bright side being that replacement will likely not be an adventurer lookng for a place to play Mussolinni and invade Albania.

Or maybe it will be a clean slate reset to pre-Chavez laws etc and a series of open elections...who knows.

I would say that's 100% correct. He may believe in some of the aspects of collectivism/socialism, but like the Soviet ruling class, he certainly doesn't believe it enough to ever want to leave his leadership position and live among the common people!

And like the Soviets before him, if he needed a life saving operation with advanced medical technology, he'd be on the first plane to a first world country to get the best possible care.

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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer

Duh2, that's an interesting view. You seem to be suggesting that there's already an extensive "power structure" in place, in Venezuela, and also you seem to be suggesting that there are a lot of "like-minded individuals" in Chavez's party.

I'm kinda seeing something more like what TB seems to be seeing - a kind of a "dog-pile" thing. I mean, you were using phrases like "replace him with someone else", and I think what would more likely happen in that kinda situation, is that there would be a scramble for the alpha-male role.

Right? I mean, that's kinda how these Latin American politics work sometimes, right? A guy's gonna be a "good little party functionary" at the same time he's cuttin' deals behind the President's back, and then when the right opportunity presents itself, he's just gonna stab the guy in the back and steal his money and his power.

I dunno - maybe both of those things are going on at the same time....

if this bothers you so much, that he is not subject to term limits and can be re-elected, why do you not express similar opposition about that practice of unlimited terms in our own congress?

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Quote:

"I like to watch the news, because I don't like people very much and when you watch the news ... if you ever had an idea that people were really terrible, you could watch the news and know that you're right."

Frank Zappa

I got no problem with term limits.

let's take care of that problem at home before we attempt to impose our national will on the same matter abroad. the double standard is embarrassing and damages our international credibility. i look forward to reading about your efforts to get the Constitution amended to establish term limits

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Quote:

"I like to watch the news, because I don't like people very much and when you watch the news ... if you ever had an idea that people were really terrible, you could watch the news and know that you're right."

Frank Zappa

Last I checked Chavez was President and not in congress. So the comparison is invalid to begin with. There is no double standard. As of now the people's will is being done. We don't have term limits because the constitution doesn't call for it. But we DO have term limits for the President. And in this country one person is not changing the laws so that he can run indefinitely like what is happening there. Your comparison is deeply flawed.

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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.

no presidential term limits in the USA until after the death of FDR. there is your apples to apples comparison. but the issue is an ability to return to office without limit, which enables the incumbency rate in our own Congress to rival that of the old USSR. so just admit it, in your fractured worldview Venezuela needs term limits while the USA does not. how hypocritical of you

__________________

Quote:

"I like to watch the news, because I don't like people very much and when you watch the news ... if you ever had an idea that people were really terrible, you could watch the news and know that you're right."

Frank Zappa