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Old 05-03-2008, 09:22 PM
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Most of the US population is armed,
Good.

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paranoid,
No.

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hateful
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and constantly drenched with propaganda and fear.
Thats the lefts fault.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:52 AM
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Thats the lefts fault.
So what are you doing in Perth MILES away from your country?

Shouldnt you be in the US like a good little patriotic boy fixing up the wonderful mess your hero George Bush has left?

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Old 05-06-2008, 05:03 PM
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Hey, how are those aboriginies doing over there?
Keeping to themselves, last I heard.
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:38 PM
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The US has a pluralistic system of government, where interest groups represent the interests of the people directly to the legislators. Under the iron law of oligarchy, the leaders and organizers of these interest groups have the most influence, simply because they are the most active in petitioning the government. This system helps to ensure that no overbearing absolute majority comes to power that will put its interest above the rights of the people. It is one of the functioning components of democracy, it is not and oligarchy, which is rule by a pre-selected group. If you are defining democracy as a system where everybody just comes together to vote on the issues, then let me remind you that that leads to dictatorship, as the ones who are best able to manipulate public emotions (demagogues) come to power (think "Hitler").

I'm also surprised that anyone on the left would criticize the US for being morally corrupt.
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:21 PM
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The US has a pluralistic system of government, where interest groups represent the interests of the people directly to the legislators. Under the iron law of oligarchy, the leaders and organizers of these interest groups have the most influence, simply because they are the most active in petitioning the government. This system helps to ensure that no overbearing absolute majority comes to power that will put its interest above the rights of the people. It is one of the functioning components of democracy, it is not and oligarchy, which is rule by a pre-selected group. If you are defining democracy as a system where everybody just comes together to vote on the issues, then let me remind you that that leads to dictatorship, as the ones who are best able to manipulate public emotions (demagogues) come to power (think "Hitler").

I'm also surprised that anyone on the left would criticize the US for being morally corrupt.
well done White fox - I see that the US propaganda system is working very well and has managed to install special hearing filters into most of its citizens' ears.

I suggest that you worte to any Politics department in any of the reputable Universities in the USa and send them your deluded definition of what a democracy is. And also ask then what TERM best describes the Political system in the USA today.

And the interest groups you highlight are not some sort of grass roots democratic movement - they represent private corporations, for example:

the health insurance companies (there are more health insurance company spin doctors than there are members of congress)

the gun lobbies

right wing religious freaks

the fossil fuel and nuclear energy spin doctors

AND least but not least - the private corporations that construct all those weapons that the USA needs o sell and dump onto everyone in the world.

Dont forget the Jewish lobby groups (less than 1% of Americans are Jewish and yet their influence in Washington is disproportionate). Why are Israeli nationsla the ONLY american citizens that can have DUAL citizenship in the USA? Why Is Israel the biggest receiver of US foreign aid today?

Lobby and interest groups? Yes we all know who they represent dont we - AND its not the average American otherwise ALL americans would have free health cover and free educations systems - AND THEIR VOTES WOULDNT BE DISCOUNTED IN FLORIDA BECAUSE OF CONNECTIONS IN THE SUPREME COURT BY A TEXAN GOVERNOR - WHO WILL REMAIN NAMELESS!

Noone in Academia describes the USA as a democracy - its a Plutocratic Oligarchy at best!

Just accept it - its the first step needed for the USA to change in a positve way
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Foolosophy View Post
well done White fox - I see that the US propaganda system is working very well and has managed to install special hearing filters into most of its citizens' ears.

I suggest that you worte to any Politics department in any of the reputable Universities in the USa and send them your deluded definition of what a democracy is. And also ask then what TERM best describes the Political system in the USA today.

And the interest groups you highlight are not some sort of grass roots democratic movement - they represent private corporations, for example:

the health insurance companies (there are more health insurance company spin doctors than there are members of congress)

the gun lobbies

right wing religious freaks

the fossil fuel and nuclear energy spin doctors

AND least but not least - the private corporations that construct all those weapons that the USA needs o sell and dump onto everyone in the world.

Dont forget the Jewish lobby groups (less than 1% of Americans are Jewish and yet their influence in Washington is disproportionate). Why are Israeli nationsla the ONLY american citizens that can have DUAL citizenship in the USA? Why Is Israel the biggest receiver of US foreign aid today?

Lobby and interest groups? Yes we all know who they represent dont we - AND its not the average American otherwise ALL americans would have free health cover and free educations systems - AND THEIR VOTES WOULDNT BE DISCOUNTED IN FLORIDA BECAUSE OF CONNECTIONS IN THE SUPREME COURT BY A TEXAN GOVERNOR - WHO WILL REMAIN NAMELESS!

Noone in Academia describes the USA as a democracy - its a Plutocratic Oligarchy at best!

Just accept it - its the first step needed for the USA to change in a positve way
You sure like to shotgun issues.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Foolosophy View Post
well done White fox - I see that the US propaganda system is working very well and has managed to install special hearing filters into most of its citizens' ears.

I suggest that you worte to any Politics department in any of the reputable Universities in the USa and send them your deluded definition of what a democracy is. And also ask then what TERM best describes the Political system in the USA today.

And the interest groups you highlight are not some sort of grass roots democratic movement - they represent private corporations, for example:

the health insurance companies (there are more health insurance company spin doctors than there are members of congress)

the gun lobbies

right wing religious freaks

the fossil fuel and nuclear energy spin doctors

AND least but not least - the private corporations that construct all those weapons that the USA needs o sell and dump onto everyone in the world.

Dont forget the Jewish lobby groups (less than 1% of Americans are Jewish and yet their influence in Washington is disproportionate). Why are Israeli nationsla the ONLY american citizens that can have DUAL citizenship in the USA? Why Is Israel the biggest receiver of US foreign aid today?

Lobby and interest groups? Yes we all know who they represent dont we - AND its not the average American otherwise ALL americans would have free health cover and free educations systems - AND THEIR VOTES WOULDNT BE DISCOUNTED IN FLORIDA BECAUSE OF CONNECTIONS IN THE SUPREME COURT BY A TEXAN GOVERNOR - WHO WILL REMAIN NAMELESS!

Noone in Academia describes the USA as a democracy - its a Plutocratic Oligarchy at best!

Just accept it - its the first step needed for the USA to change in a positve way
Well, I've cleaned out by ears and their wasn't anything that looked like a filter or anything.

If by reputable you mean liberal, then yeah, I'd probably get that kind of response.

Interest groups can support anything they like, and yes, they do not all represent themselves equally, but their really isn't anything stopping you from talking to your representatives in Congress and telling them what you (a voter) thinks. Corporations do have their own interest groups but so do many others as well. Interest groups come from both end of the political spectrum and can support anything they want. However, if the people in congress think their idiots, then there's no reason to support those interests.

What would be your definition of a functioning, free democracy?
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:32 AM
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What would be your definition of a functioning, free democracy?
there arent any in the world today.

(its a Greek word and an ancient Greek concept - look it up, its 2 Greek words "demos" and "kratia" - when you understand what these 2 words mean and how they unite to form a very simple concept, I am sure that you will agree with me that there aren't any democratic nations in the world today. Its not just about casting a vote every few years as a citizen of a country)
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Foolosophy View Post
there arent any in the world today.

(its a Greek word and an ancient Greek concept - look it up, its 2 Greek words "demos" and "kratia" - when you understand what these 2 words mean and how they unite to form a very simple concept, I am sure that you will agree with me that there aren't any democratic nations in the world today. Its not just about casting a vote every few years as a citizen of a country)
I'm glad we can agree on this. However, if you were to read The Federalist Papers (which I encourage you to do) you would know that there is a problem with this. Greek democracy cannot work in a large country with different interest like America. That is why you need pluralism, so that the interests of one group cannot dominate other people. This freedom is the object of democracy.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:30 PM
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I'm glad we can agree on this. However, if you were to read The Federalist Papers (which I encourage you to do) you would know that there is a problem with this. Greek democracy cannot work in a large country with different interest like America. That is why you need pluralism, so that the interests of one group cannot dominate other people. This freedom is the object of democracy.

But this is my point - In the USA, as is the case in all countries, the interests of a handful of concentrated interest groups dominate the bulk of the population because they effectively control Congress by stealth veto.

The USA is a prime example of this subversion of the public from the democratic process
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