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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
I brought this up in another forum. years ago. The Bushies didn't even respond.
I'm not a Bushie but I'd be glad to respond to this silly proposition- yet another 'Duh' type Moral equivalence floater.

The two situations are completely NON-analogous.

Saddam had invaded a small Emirate.
Not a democracy, not an ostensible democracy but really a traditional 'large tribe' as much as a country.

While Iraq was/is not nearly as Homogenous and does require the consent of at least 3 peoples to be a stable functioning country.

The only thing they did have in common was they were Both being controlled by Saddam, Both Unwillingly at the time we invaded.

-
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Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

Last edited by i.beletesri; 06-11-2008 at 07:47 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
I'm not a Bushie but I'd be glad to respond to this silly proposition- yet another 'Duh' type Moral equivalence floater.
The comparison goes out to Bushies because of their "We brought democracy to Iraq" stance.
Quote:
The two situations are completely NON-analogous.
They are in some content. Or are you trying to argue that the US is only spreading democracies to certain countries.
Quote:
Saddam had invaded a small Emirate.
A small emirate that used to be apart of Iraq. A small emirate that the US gave Saddam a green light to invade but changed their minds 8 days later. A small emirate that he accused of slant drilling which we found out later Saddam's accusation's were correct.
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Not a democracy, not an ostensible democracy but really a traditional 'large tribe' as much as a country.
And this has to do with what?
Quote:
The only thing they did have in common was they were Both being controlled by Saddam, Both Unwillingly at the time we invaded
.Don't forget who helped Saddam rise to power and who supported him once he became that power. Pointing out hypocritical stances by certain people is way too easy.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Foolosophy View Post
Strange isnt it.

The USA and many other countries pushed back the Iraqi invading armies from KUWAIT in the first gulf war BUT DIDNT demand a democratic transition in KUWAIT itself.

In KUWAIT today, NO WOMEN are allowed to vote in what meaningless representational system it has, and only around 10% of the remaining MALE population gets a voice.

ALL of KUWAIT'S media is centrally controlled and censored.

I wont go on.

THe Point is, One of the dozens of excuses the BUSH administration has dumped onto the American public for invading IRAQ was to set up a democracy there.

SO WHY NOT IN KUWAIT after the first Gulf War?

Remember the propaganda prior to the first gulf war? Bush senior repeated in public many times that Suddam Hussein MUST LEAVE DEMOCRATIC KUWAIT.

THe USA DEFINED A DEMOCRACY AS THE POLITICAL SYSTEM IN KUWAIT.

You presume that all wars are created equal. They aren't. End of discussion.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
The comparison goes out to Bushies because of their "We brought democracy to Iraq" stance.
Yes, and as I said the two situations are Not Analogous... nor even were they invaded by the Same President for the same reason.
There was no pretense of Such.
Baffling non-logic. non understanding.
Or rather a willful attempt to point out Hypocrisy where non exists.

We were freeing Kuwait from Saddam, not installing Democracy.
9/11 didn't happen until 10 years after Gulf 1.
Ahh, history marches on.

Quote:
A small emirate that used to be apart of Iraq. A small emirate that the US gave Saddam a green light to invade but changed their minds 8 days later. A small emirate that he accused of slant drilling which we found out later Saddam's accusation's were correct.
So you support Saddam's invasion because of Slant drilling or because of Ostensible/Disputed and temporary/8day 'green lighting'?

Perhaps Baghdad Bob has found a Computer. Welcome!


Quote:
And this has to do with what?
Has to do with what I said above.
Bush1 did not have the same cause for invasion.

Quote:
.Don't forget who helped Saddam rise to power and who supported him once he became that power. ...
Right.
This is the Mindless partner/Twin of "We made Osama" because we helped the Afghani Rebels beat the Russian invasion.
So we are responsible for 9/11.

OOOPH!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

Last edited by i.beletesri; 06-11-2008 at 09:25 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
Yes, and as I said the two situations are Not Analogous... nor even were they invaded by the Same President for the same reason.
There was no pretense of Such.
Baffling non-logic. non understanding

We were freeing Kuwait from Saddam, not installing Democracy.
9/11 didn't happen until 10 years after Gulf 1.
Ahh, history marches on.
You seem to be missing the whole point. We were talking about why the US invaded Iraq to bring about a democracy yet they support other undemocratic countries around the world (Kuwait being the example of this thread).
Quote:
So you support Saddam's invasion because of Slant drilling or because of Ostensible/Disputed and temporary/8day 'green lighting'!
Regardless of my stance on the Gulf War it is wrong in every way to tell one country something and then go back on your word thus causing thousands of deaths. Ask yourself this. Would Saddam even invaded Kuwait if the US was forthright and told him "no, don't do it or we will come to their aid."?
Quote:
Has to do with what I said above.
Bush1 did not have the same cause for invasion.
The comparisons to the invasion of Iraq in the Gulf War was brought up by another poster. I only enlightened him on some facts. You are the only one comparing them exclusively.
Quote:
Right this is the Mindless partner/Twin of "We made Osama" because we helped the Afghani Rebels beat the Russian invasion.

So we are responsible for 9/11.
Nice Strawman. But it doesn't fit here. Everything you criticized Saddam about, the US had some involvement in the process. Involvement meaning their support.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
You seem to be missing the whole point. We were talking about why the US invaded Iraq to bring about a democracy yet they support other undemocratic countries around the world (Kuwait being the example of this thread).
Yes but a bad example from a differnt time period after 9/11 changed the World.

As I said 3, NON-analogous in time or even if contemporarily... not the same situation.
A tribal Emirate- or the non-Homogenous Iraq

Different in every respect.

As I said 2, except Both were being held Unwillingly by Saddam.

Sometimes people don't necessarily need to be told again for understanding.. just can't take the Loss.

Quote:
Regardless of my stance on the Gulf War it is wrong in every way to tell one country something and then go back on your word thus causing thousands of deaths....
Call me picky, but I can't believe you don't deny you were far Saddam's invasion of that 'Slanty-drilling' little country.

LOL
Quote:
The comparisons to the invasion of Iraq in the Gulf War was brought up by another poster. I only enlightened him on some facts. You are the only one comparing them exclusively.
Nice Strawman. But it doesn't fit here. Everything you criticized Saddam about, the US had some involvement in the process. Involvement meaning their support.
The Strawmen are all yours.
Different Presidents,
Different time Periods,
Very Different Countries.


NEXT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

Last edited by i.beletesri; 06-11-2008 at 09:44 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
Yes but a bad example from a differnt time period after 9/11 changed the World.
Can't refute your own hypocrisy so you have to resort to 911 changed the world.
Quote:
As I said 3, NON-analogous in time or even if contemporarily... not the same situtaion.
A tribval Emirate- or the non-Homogenous Iraq
So you are making the rules. I wonder what rules would apply for the other few nations that don't have democracies. I also don't remember any of that in any of Bush's speeches.
Quote:
As I said 2, except Both were being held Unwillingly by Saddam.
Who is holding Kuwait now or even 5 years ago. You accuse me of crossing over from time period to time period but you are doing it yourself.
Quote:
Call me picky, but I can't believe you don't deny you were far Saddam's invasion of that 'Slanty-drilling' little country.
Only an ignorant fool would think that was the only reason for Saddam's invasion. I believe real diplomacy would have prevented the Gulf War.
Quote:
The Strawmen are all yours.
Different Presidents,
Different time Periods,
Very Different Countries.
And where did I mention Osama or 911. Please, the first pig needs his straw back to build his house.
Quote:
NEXT
So presumptuous of one who has been knocked down so many times the referee has stopped counting.
__________________
America's Enemies Are Not Mine

All wars represent a failure of diplomacy

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Can't refute your own hypocrisy so you have to resort to 911 changed the world.
Wrong.
Different time periods (post 9/11 does make a difference)
Different Presidents
Different Rationales
Different Countries.

Other than those little things!- someone almost had a point.


and still no denial that your were for Saddam's Invasion of that 'Slanty-drilling' little country.

Sometimes the Left is so Far left it becomes Stalinesque.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

Last edited by i.beletesri; 06-11-2008 at 10:04 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
Wrong.
Different time periods (post 9/11 does make a difference)
Different Presidents
Different Rationales
Different Countries.
Wow, the ignorance shown here is beyond belief. Bush attacked Iraq in 2003. A reason for this espoused by many was to bring about a democracy. Kuwait of the exact same time period did not have a real democracy either. That blows your different time periods and your different Presidents excuses out the window. As for different countries that is what the argument is about in the first place. Why the US choses to spread democracy to one country and not another.
That leaves you with different rationales. Rationales that you claim but no one else (including the President).
Quote:
Jesus what Hypocrites the USA is
You are finally seeing the light.

Quote:
and still no denial that your were for Saddam's Invasion of that 'Slanty-drilling' little country.
I guess when one says they prefer diplomacy over war one should take that as not support for the said invasion.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuatara View Post
Wow, the ignorance shown here is beyond belief. Bush attacked Iraq in 2003. A reason for this espoused by many was to bring about a democracy. Kuwait of the exact same time period did not have a real democracy either. That blows your different time periods and your different Presidents excuses out the window. As for different countries that is what the argument is about in the first place. Why the US choses to spread democracy to one country and not another.
That leaves you with different rationales. Rationales that you claim but no one else (including the President).
Actually 'Democracy was just one reason
The Most important Stated (but it turned out wrong) reason was WMD.
OOOOPS!
You're already Wrong in your first part of your first sentence! Ouch.
Kuwait of the Same time period wasn't a Democracy but who cares. As said 4, It's a small and stable Emirate (For you I guess I'll have to include that means 'ruled by an Emir'. Hark! And for a Long time.)

Quote:
You are finally seeing the light.
Your Dishonest MISquote game Grows more Dishonest.
You left off the First part of the sentence I BOLDED:

""Other than those little things!- someone almost had a point.""

Caught
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

Last edited by i.beletesri; 06-11-2008 at 10:23 PM.
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