Thread: F-22 Stealth Fighter Cover-up?

Originally Posted by Herkdriver

His jet...

Whoa! That's classified! Looks like someone needs to remediate OPSEC...

Granny says so far it sounds like a white-wash to her...

Air Force cites progress on F-22 oxygen mystery
14 June`12 WASHINGTON (AP) – The Air Force believes it is getting much closer to pinpointing the reason why pilots of its prized F-22 stealth fighters sometimes suffer an oxygen deficit during flight, a senior general said Thursday.

The problem prompted the Air Force to ground the aircraft for a period in 2011, and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last month ordered new flight restrictions after CBS' 60 Minutes program aired interviews with F-22 pilots who complained about the oxygen problem. Maj. Gen. Charles Lyon, who is managing the Air Force's effort to resolve the mysterious problem, said in an Associated Press interview that it is likely that the pilots' symptoms are caused by previously unknown restrictions on their breathing. "We're not ready to declare victory yet," he said, but this is the first time the Air Force has narrowed down the likely cause. Lyon said he also is close to ruling out another theory: That contaminants were getting into the pilot's lungs via the oxygen delivery system that is connected by hose to their flight helmets.

Lyon said he is satisfied, after extensive testing, that no harmful contaminants are moving through the oxygen system. He is the director of operations for Air Force Combat Command and has been leading the F-22 work since January. Lyon said the root of the problem, which has caused some F-22 pilots to feel dizzy and experience other symptoms of hypoxia, or oxygen deprivation, may turn out to be linked to two issues:

• Improper functioning of the pilots' pressure, or G-force, vest. Lyon said that, unknown to the pilots, the vest's bladder has been filling with air at times when it should not. That has made it harder for the pilots to breath. The Air Force last Friday stopped using the vests and is going to modify them before returning them to use in the F-22, Lyon said. In the meantime the Air Force has lowered the maximum altitude the F-22 will fly, since the vests are intended to protect pilots' lungs in the event of a sudden loss of cockpit air pressure at high altitudes.

• The hose and hose connectors that are part of the pilot's oxygen delivery system have been leaking slightly, further restricting the amount of oxygen getting to the pilot's lungs.

Lyon said additional testing will be done before the Air Force can be certain that these restrictions are the root of the problem. The Air Force has come under fire from some in Congress for not taking quicker action to fix the problem. Two leading critics, Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., told reporters Thursday they believe the Air Force needs to be more open with the public about the issue. Warner and Kinzinger also said that information they received from the Air Force this week indicates that the oxygen-deficit problem is greater than the Air Force had previously believed.

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Sources: Flight suit could be cause of oxygen loss in F-22 flights
June 13th, 2012 - Air Force investigators believe a specialized flight suit could be partially responsible for some pilots experiencing a lack of oxygen while flying the F-22 fighter jet, according to a report by Air Force investigators.

Investigators are focusing on part of the suit, called the "Combat Edge," which hampers breathing and causes oxygen loss when combined with a physiological condition that collapses air sacs in the lungs, according to details of the report that were shared with Security Clearance. The findings are expected to be part of the first monthly update by Air Force investigators to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta to be delivered later this week or early next week, according to sources familiar with the investigation. The findings are expected to be part of the first monthly update by Air Force investigators to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta to be delivered later this week or early next week, according to sources familiar with the investigation. Last month, Panetta ordered the updates on the investigation after the Air Force could not identify the cause of the continued issues with pilots complaining about coming close to passing out while flying the plane, which the service called "hypoxia-like symptoms."

Combat Edge is a vest-like garment that expands and contracts on a pilot's torso to fight the effects of severe G-forces experienced while flying the F-22. The problem being looked at is that the garment may restrict the pilots' breathing beyond what is intended, according to sources familiar with the report. Another possible problem for pilots, the report is expected to say, is a condition called acceleration atelectasis, which causes a pilot's lungs to not effectively deliver oxygen to the bloodstream. The condition for F-22 pilots is caused when extreme gravity and breathing almost pure oxygen in the F-22 cockpit partially collapse air sacs in the lungs, according to the sources. Acceleration atelectasis causes a heavy cough, which F-22 pilots have called the "Raptor cough" after the nickname of the fighter, "Raptor."

Pilots have complained about the cough in connection with the hypoxia-like conditions as they fly the F-22, the most technologically advanced plane in history, often at altitudes much higher than regular aircraft fly. The pilots also perform maneuvers that put their bodies through extreme conditions. In an e-mail response to questions by Security Clearance, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. John Dorrian said, "Recent testing has identified some vulnerability and reliability issues in the upper pressure garment worn by F-22 pilots. Air Combat Command has directed pilots to remove the upper pressure garment during routine flight operations, and Air Force officials are developing a fix to overcome the identified issues." The findings in the update report to be given to Panetta are not final, according to the sources. Air Force officials say investigators are narrowing down the cause of the problem, which has intermittently plagued the aircraft since 2008.The problem compounded in September 2011 as more pilots complained of experiencing the symptoms.

The Combat Edge problem does not explain why some mechanics have also suffered from hypoxia while working on the planes on the ground. The fleet was grounded in May 2011 so the service could check the hypoxia reports, but the order was lifted in September under a "return to fly" plan, with equipment modifications and new rules including daily inspections of the life-support systems. Investigators initially pointed to an onboard oxygen generating system that pilots used to breathe as a possible cause. Lockheed Martin, the maker of the jet, was given a $19 million contract to install a backup oxygen system in the F-22 last week. Last month, Panetta mandated that all F-22 flights "remain within the proximity of potential landing locations" to ensure the ability to recover and land should a pilot run into "unanticipated physiological conditions."

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Granny says dey need to fix dat...

Oxygen problems far more likely in F-22 than other fighter jets
June 15th, 2012 : Pilots flying the F-22 Raptor reported illness from oxygen deprivation incidents 10 times as often as pilots of other fighter jets, according to Air Force data.

The F-22 has been the focus of an Air Force inquiry because of the oxygen problems. The new data, released by Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, shows Raptor pilots have reported 26.43 hypoxia and hypoxia-like incidents per 100,000 flight hours. While that represents a mere fraction of total flight hours, it is far higher than incidents from other Air Force aircraft, including the A-10, the F-15E and the F-16.

Kinzinger, a military pilot himself, said that while low, the numbers are extremely concerning. Kinzinger and Warner have been vocal in pressing the Air Force to investigate the concerns after two pilots came forward about the problem on CBS's "60 Minutes."The problem puts pilots in "a vulnerable situation, because potentially, you have a pilot who at the beginning stages of hypoxia-like symptoms, really can't, you know, think things through, has a hard time making those judgment calls," Kinzinger told CNN's Soledad O'Brien in an interview on the CNN morning show "Starting Point." "You really do lose your cognitive ability," he said. "So - well, you do this to recognize your symptoms. Everybody has different symptoms. For me, actually, I start finding everything pretty funny. But then you have a hard time."

The Air Force continues to investigate the hypoxia problem. Investigators are looking at whether a compression vest worn as part of the flight suit contributes to the problem, CNN's Mike Mount reported Wednesday. Investigators are focusing on a part of the suit called the Combat Edge, which can hamper breathing and cause oxygen loss when combined with a physiological condition that collapses air sacs in the lungs, according to details of the report that were shared with CNN Security Clearance. Combat Edge is a vest-like garment that expands and contracts on a pilot's torso to fight the effects of severe G-forces experienced while flying the F-22. What is being looked at is whether the garment may restrict the pilots' breathing beyond what is intended, according to sources familiar with the report. "In many cases, those vests were actually failing in high-G scenarios," Kinzinger said Friday. "So, at this point, it seems like the most likely place to pursue."

But the problem has proven vexing, especially since there have been incidents of mechanics on the ground having the same symptoms, and some pilots also experiencing hypoxia at lower altitudes. "The Air Force has explained that these maintainers, you know, had symptoms, but they actually weren't related," Kinzinger said. "I think it's very important that we take a deep look in that, because if they are related, then the high pressure, the upper vest suit, isn't the issue. And I think the other big issue, too, is maintainers and pilots have to feel comfortable to come forward and talk about their concerns."

The fleet was grounded in May 2011 so the service could check the hypoxia reports, but the order was lifted in September under a "return to fly" plan, with equipment modifications and new rules including daily inspections of the life-support systems. Investigators initially pointed to an onboard oxygen-generating system that feeds pilots' air supply as a possible cause. Lockheed Martin, the maker of the jet, was given a $19 million contract to install a backup oxygen system in the F-22 last week. Last month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta mandated that all F-22 flights "remain within the proximity of potential landing locations" to ensure the ability to recover and land should a pilot run into "unanticipated physiological conditions."

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Granny says dat's the gubmint tellin' it - still remains to be seen...

After four years Air Force “confident” it has found F-22 problem source
July 31st, 2012 - An imperfect valve, a filter meant to protect pilots from chemical and biological threats, and decades-old vest technology combined to cause problems that grounded the state-of-the-art F-22 fighter jet, according to Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Lyon, director of operations for Air Combat Command.

"We determined with confidence the source of the unexplained physiological incident resides in the F-22 cockpit," Lyon said. The Air Force has been investigating why a number of F-22 pilots have experienced a mysterious loss of oxygen while in the air, causing dizziness and confusion known as hypoxia, since spring 2011. Oxygen problems that have caused hypoxia-like symptoms in pilots and ground crew members have occurred for the past four years.

In recent months, Air Force officials, under pressure from Congress and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, have searched for a root cause of the problem and have thoroughly examined the system as a whole and found what they believes is the cause. "In the end there is no smoking gun," Lyon told reporters at the Pentagon Tuesday during a briefing laying out the details of the findings.

The Air Force found four main components to the cause of the problem:

– The upper pressure garment, or vest, that the pilots were wearing

– The oxygen-delivery hoses on the vest

– The valve in the quick connection point in those hoses

– An air filter on the hoses designed to filter out chemical and biological agents

The Air Force had checked each of those parts of the system independently and they all worked as expected. But only once had the service checked the entire system together. "There was a rudimentary testing that was done on the vest and it said that it inflates early and that it impedes the mobility of the pilot in the cockpit, and that was it. They didn't study the long term physiological impact of having this inflated," Lyon said. After that rudimentary test was done, the entire F-22 fleet was grounded, but is now flying with limits on how high the planes can fly and how far from a safe landing strip they can go.

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Originally Posted by waltky

Granny says dat's the gubmint tellin' it - still remains to be seen...

After four years Air Force “confident” it has found F-22 problem source
July 31st, 2012 - An imperfect valve, a filter meant to protect pilots from chemical and biological threats, and decades-old vest technology combined to cause problems that grounded the state-of-the-art F-22 fighter jet, according to Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Lyon, director of operations for Air Combat Command.

So 4 design issues were the root cause of this problem?

What other design issues will come out in the wash if it took years to find this?

Originally Posted by unclebob

So 4 design issues were the root cause of this problem?

What other design issues will come out in the wash if it took years to find this?

This is always the case, in any military (or civilian) equipment. Once the item of equipment moves from prototype to widespread use, little things pop up that nobody realized before. You can bring up almost any piece of equipment, and somebody that knows it can point to major changes made during it's lifetime when changes were made.

The PATRIOT missile system is over 30 years old, and we still find things that do not work right all the time. It is simply the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by Mushroom

This is always the case, in any military (or civilian) equipment. Once the item of equipment moves from prototype to widespread use, little things pop up that nobody realized before. You can bring up almost any piece of equipment, and somebody that knows it can point to major changes made during it's lifetime when changes were made.

The PATRIOT missile system is over 30 years old, and we still find things that do not work right all the time. It is simply the nature of the beast.

Yup, especially when there is considerably more that can go wrong given its high-tech nature. A lot more can go wrong with your Audi than your Focus.

Originally Posted by Up On the Governor

Yup, especially when there is considerably more that can go wrong given its high-tech nature. A lot more can go wrong with your Audi than your Focus.

Well, that's just because the Audi and Ford is not made by the perfect workers in a Communist state. They are able to build things perfectly the first time, every time. And so well designed that they never need to be changed.

1990 Trabant:



1958 Trabant:

Another problem project pushed forward comes back to haunt Pentagon...

Raptor: Problem Jet Of The Year
Dec 31, 2012 - The Air Force's most expensive fighter jet ever has been the center of national controversy after problems with the oxygen system. With the "grounding" of an F-22 at Tyndall Air Force Base in May and a crash on the base in November, the scrutiny only increased.

Even the cost of the plane has been contested. The Air Force has claimed the cost of the plane was between $140 and $190 million, but the Congressional Budget Office has said the stealth fighter has cost the U.S. government more than $400 million per plane. Regardless of the cost, the Air Force has spent millions more investigating problems with the F-22. The problems at Tyndall started this past spring. On May 31, a Raptor landed on its belly after the landing gear was not properly deployed. Little information has been released about the incident other than it was believed to be "pilot error."

On Nov. 15, an F-22 slammed into the ground, nearly obliterating the plane in the crash which occurred inside the base grounds at the end of a runway. The pilot safely ejected from the plane and was treated and released from a local hospital. Officials at the time said the pilot was about five miles from the base when as-yet unidentified problem occurred.

Oxygen questions

Questions regarding the oxygen system being at the center of the Tyndall crash were quickly dismissed by Air Force officials. The November incident remains under investigation. Still, the F-22 has been plagued with a string of incidents of pilots experiencing hypoxia symptoms dating back several years. An Associated Press investigation revealed Air Force officials were aware of flaws as early as 2005. More recently, the Air Force has contended a valve inside the flight gear of an F-22 pilot allowed a "pressure garment" vest to inflate when it shouldn't, causing hypoxia symptoms in the pilot. Earlier this year, Air Force officials said they fixed the problem. But, Air Combat Command in Langley, Va., said they were inundated with requests for a response regarding the two pilots from the Virginia Air National Guard who said in a report May 6 on CBS' "60 Minutes" that they do not feel safe flying the F-22 Raptor -- and that they are not alone.

F-22 Raptor pilots Jeremy Gordon and Josh Wilson said they came forward for the safety of all pilots involved. The pilots said they loved flying the F-22 but had experienced hypoxia, which investigators said could stem from a malfunctioning onboard oxygen system. The problems grounded the F-22 for months, including at Tyndall Air Force Base in 2011, where F-22 pilots train. Pierre Sprey, who helped develop the A-10 and F-16 jets, said he believes the glues that hold the F-22 stealth "skin" in place is emanating chemicals that are making the pilots sick. The Air Force has downplayed Sprey's accusations. On top off all that, the time schedule for the 7th Fighter Wing Squadron move from New Mexico to Tyndall was delayed. The new fighter squadron of F-22 Raptors originally was scheduled to arrive in January.

Source

First the F-22 oxygen problem - now this...

F-35 fighter jet fleet grounded by Pentagon
22 February 2013 - The US has grounded its entire fleet of 51 F-35 fighter jets after the discovery of a cracked engine blade.

The fault was detected during a routine inspection of an air force version of the jet (F-35A) at Edwards Air Force Base in California, said the Pentagon. Different versions are flown by the navy and the marine corps. All have been grounded. The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive weapons programme. with a cost of nearly $400bn (£260bn). The Pentagon said flight operations would remain suspended until the root cause is established.


Different versions of the most advanced US fighter jet are flown by the navy and the marine corps

Friday's order was the second time in two months planes from the F-35 range have been grounded. The marine corps variant (F-35B), a short take-off and vertical landing variant (STOVL), was grounded for nearly a month after a manufacturing defect caused a fuel line to detach just before a training flight in January. The air force version takes off from, and lands on, conventional runways while the STOVL version takes off from shorter runways and lands like a helicopter.


Squadron Leader Steve Long of the UK's RAF explained the capabilities of the F-35 in 2010

The UK is buying the SOVL variant for its future aircraft carriers. It is replacing the scrapped Harrier jet which had a range of 300 nautical miles, compared with the F-35's 450 nautical miles. With a top speed of 1,200mph (1,930km/h), the F-35 can fly almost twice as fast as the Harrier, while it also has radar transparency and stealth capabilities - the Harrier had neither.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21554331

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Pentagon grounds entire Joint Strike Fighter fleet
February 22, 2013 - All Joint Strike Fighter operations have been suspended after an inspection revealed a cracked turbine blade in an engine at Edwards Air Force Base in California, officials said Friday.

The blade has been sent to Pratt & Whitney’s Engine Facility in Connecticut for more tests, but all F-35s will remain on the ground until the investigation is finished and experts determine what caused the crack, according to the Joint Strike Fighter program office. The Marine variant of the fighter jet had just resumed flying last week after an engine malfunction prompted a 30-day suspension.



The $396 billion F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, the Pentagon’s largest weapons program, is seven years behind schedule. The jet is still in the test and development phase and not yet fully operational.

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said in December that the Joint Strike Fighter will see its first overseas deployment in 2017, to Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni in Japan. The fighter program is billed on its website as the DOD’s “focal point for defining affordable next generation strike aircraft systems for the navy, Air Force, Marines, and our allies.” The jets are built by Lockheed Martin and powered by Pratt & Whitney engines.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/penta...fleet-1.209283