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Old 03-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum View Post
its ironic how theres a shortage of pilots in a day that they can control a uav and not even be in harms way while during ww2 there were young men eager to fly practically suicide missions in bombers over germany knowing that the chance of them returning from the mission is slim to none.

im not saying that the air force isnt doing enough but weve had it worse and not many complained.
We're growing soft as a Nation. Few want to serve it anymore. We're the "bad" guys afterall; invading those poor Iraqis. *sarcasm*
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
Well then, how would you suggest the USAF deal with the shortage of pilots?

Because if they can't, then the USArmy might as well take over tactical UAV operations.
The article specifies there is a CREW shortage, not just the pilots.

CREWS get deployed as I've said before.

It's relatively new technology and the SECDEF wants to double the number of UAV Sq.'s.

That stuff takes time.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:11 PM
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Crews get deployed in-theater goes without saying. As for not getting enough volunteers, I'll put part of blame on leadership that told the American people to "go shopping" back when this war started.


anyway...


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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
The Army has Warrant Officers flying most of their helos, they may use them to drive the UAV's I suppose, but the Army is short on WO's also.
Or better yet the USAF can bring back it's own Warrant Officer grade. The career path for rankn'file Airmen is too restricted as it stands.


Bottomline is the USAF has been slow to adapt to the needs of Dubya's GWOT. UAV's do not need pilots who can handle massive G loading and trained for years to the tune of about a million dollars and retained at premium MOS.

A 18year old who grew up with a Playstation, drilled on how to avoid hitting the ground and supervised to blow the crap outta anything the grunts don't like, will do.




Quote:
It's relatively new technology and the SECDEF wants to double the number of UAV Sq.'s. That stuff takes time.
USAF brass primadonnas aren't helping.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post


Or better yet the USAF can bring back it's own Warrant Officer grade. The career path for rankn'file Airmen is too restricted as it stands..
In WWII, the Army Air Force used Enlisted as Pilots and air crew in many birds. Chuck Yeager was an enlisted pilot.

I'm not opposed to forming an enlisted specialty as UAV drivers, they did the same thing for Satellite operators moving from Officers to enlisted...it worked out well.

Developing training techniques will take time, because what is in place now is geared towards college level engineering backgrounds. I hate to use the word "dumb down" but in some ways that is exactly what they may have to do.

I'm in agreement, that there is no reason why an enlisted can't learn to pilot a UAV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
Bottomline is the USAF has been slow to adapt to the needs of Dubya's GWOT. UAV's do not need pilots who can handle massive G loading and trained for years to the tune of about a million dollars and retained at primium MOS.

A 19year old who grew up on with Playstation, drilled on how to avoid hitting the ground and supervised to blow the crap outta anything the grunts don't like, will do.
Exactly, a 19 y/o is used to killing pixelated characters in a video game...the Predators use real missiles...real people die. That is my point. The ROE in modern urban based combat is not a free-for-all, collateral damage must be considered; this is why an Officer is in the loop.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post

USAirForce brass primadonnas aren't helping.
You seem to have a problem with the Officer Corps. and not the actual topic at hand, crewing UAV's.

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Old 03-27-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Exactly, a 19 y/o is used to killing pixelated characters in a video game...the Predators use real missiles...real people die. That is my point. The ROE in modern urban based combat is not a free-for-all, collateral damage must be considered; this is why an Officer is in the loop.
True. But do keep in mind, it wasn't that long ago that the USArmy issued tactical nukes to sgts.

And come to think of it, I don't remember *them* misplacing nukes.. only to find it days later on the other side of the country.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:50 PM
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Icon3 Not your daddy's Airforce anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
You seem to have a problem with the Officer Corps. and not the actual topic at hand, crewing UAV's.
Not at all. But I do see a problem with a USAF command that has, frankly, been too relaxed, slow to react to a dynamic situation and now gets defensive over what they percieve as outsiders stepping in on their territory and budget.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
Unlike a video game, flying a UAV requries aviation skills. It's the equivalent of looking through a soda straw while driving a car. The USAF requires all of it's pilots, in all of it's birds.... to be Officers. Maybe they'll change, this policy I don't know.
Drones are the future. They better adapt quick. Or else the 21st century USAF will find itself out of that job.

....








Neat article. Good recruitment propaganda too if they could make a movie based around it..

---------------
Attack of the Drones
Flying bots rule the skies in combat zones around the globe.
Now the battle is on between the joystick jockeys and the fighter jocks.
By Noah Shachtman

...


Private Joel Clark doesn't have any macho dogfight stories. He doesn't have a cool call sign or the swagger of a guy who has pulled 9 gs. In fact, Clark has never held a throttle. He did, however, flunk high school English. And that's how the milky-pale 19-year-old became one of America's newest pilots.

Clark had planned to join the Army as a Blackhawk helicopter mechanic. But that F kept him from graduating on time, forcing him to reapply. The second time around, his recruiter suggested he try instead to be a "96 Uniform" - Army-speak for a UAV operator. Clark had never considered becoming a pilot. But the idea of running a robot spy plane sounded pretty rad. Now he's one of 225 soldiers, reservists, and National Guardsmen training on a lonely airstrip at Fort Huachuca, Arizona, a 125-year-old outpost 10 miles from the Mexican border.

In a sense, Clark has been prepping for the job since he was a kid: He plays videogames. A lot of videogames. Back in the barracks he spends downtime with an Xbox and a PlayStation. When he first slid behind the controls of a Shadow UAV, the point and click operation turned out to work much the same way. "You watch the screen. You tell it to roll left, it rolls left. It's pretty simple," Clark says. But this is real life. "So you have to take it more seriously. If you crash one of these, you have to bleed and (*)(*)(*)(*)" - in other words, take a drug test.

Clark has no intention of nose-diving, however. Crashing a $550,000 Shadow isn't as catastrophic as riding a $4.5 million Predator into the ground (or a $55 million F-15, for that matter). But Clark has gamed away the past 11 months in Arizona, and today, finally, is his last "check ride." After this takeoff, he'll be certified to fly the Shadow 200. He'll spend a few months at Fort Hood, Texas, training with the 4th Infantry Division. Then he'll ship off to what his sergeant calls the Big Sandbox: Iraq.
"Striker 1-5, we have lights. Are we clear to launch?" Clark asks into his headset. The low buzz from the plane's engine shifts into a high-pitched, 105-decibel whine. "Departure approved," the control tower squawks back, barely audible over the din.

"Outstanding," Clark smiles, checking his instrument panel one more time. "Five. Four. Three. Two. One. Launch, launch, launch!" he says, as the plane jumps into the Arizona morning.

The flat gray Shadow gets propelled skyward on a nitrogen-pressurized rail; when Clark is ready to land, a hand-sized antenna dish on the side of the runway will guide the plane to the ground by transmitting coordinates a lot like GPS. Sitting in a Humvee, Clark flies the Hunter by using a mouse to point and click pixelated dials and sliders modeled after the ones in a physical cockpit. Alternatively he can just click a route on a map, or program a destination and let the plane figure it out. Clark doesn't have a throttle, and he can't see out the front of the plane. In fact, there is a camera, but the soldier sitting to Clark's left is working the joystick to take the pictures that make the whole mission worthwhile. Clark is just driving the bus.


During the Cold War, US pilots were nobody's chauffeurs. They were aces, ready to mix it up with more agile Soviet MiGs. Today, few countries have fighters that can match US forces. The days of dogfights are over, unless the United States is planning to start a war with Israel or India. So if UAVs are getting simpler to operate, and if there are no more "duels in the sky," says retired Marine major general Tom Wilkerson - a quintessential fighter jock, a Top Gun graduate with more than 3,000 hours in the front seats of F-4s and F/A-18 Hornets - "maybe you don't need any fighter pilots at all."


Nearly six decades after World War I ace Carl Spaatz became its first chief of staff, the Air Force is still ruled by fighter pilots. They're the guys who can smile through barrel rolls that make lesser men lose their lunch, guys with the kind of toys that go Mach 2.

UAVs have been in that toy chest for decades. The Air Force sent a supersonic drone over China in the 1960s; in the Vietnam War its shark-shaped Lightning Bug flew 3,500 unmanned reconnaissance sorties. More experiments followed through the 1980s and 1990s.

Drones had their successes, but Air Force jocks never accepted them as a part of top gun culture. UAVs were considered so second class, the Air Force had to order pilots into drone duty. After all, airmen earned less money operating a Predator, and too much time as a drone pilot could lead to a loss of flight privileges for manned planes. They weren't much fun to fly, either. At a fraction of the weight of an F-15, they get pummeled by the wind on takeoff and landing; 25 have crashed since 2001. That means questions, accident reports, and a blot on your record. And let's just come out and say it: You're not exactly risking your life for your country flying a mission from behind a desk at Nellis.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.06/drones_pr.html
---------------------------

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Old 06-06-2008, 02:53 AM
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Exclamation UPDATE: SecDef Gates drops the hammer on USAF command

Weeell, what with Dr.Gates calling the F22 useless in the current war, the flap over the drones, and missplacing nukes, it was bound to happen... although I am surprised he called for both the USAF chief of staff and USAF Secretary's heads to roll at the same time.






---------------------------------------------------
Air Force's top leaders are fired
Defense Secretary Robert Gates cites errors in caring for the nuclear arsenal. But experts see a more complicated dispute.

By Julian E. Barnes and Peter Spiegel, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
June 6, 2008



WASHINGTON -- In an unprecedented action in a time of war, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates simultaneously fired the civilian and military leaders of the Air Force on Thursday, saying that oversight standards for the U.S. nuclear arsenal had deteriorated on their watch.

The immediate reason for the requested resignations of Gen. T. Michael "Buzz" Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, and Air Force Secretary Michael W. Wynne was a report on the accidental shipment of nuclear triggers to Taiwan. However, the dismissals came amid a long-brewing dispute between Gates and the Air Force leadership.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...tory?track=rss

------------------------------------------------------
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:35 AM
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Icon3 UPDATE: Recommendations on senior USAF command

.


-----------------------------------------------
June 9, 2008


Today I provided my recommendation to the President for the nominations to the top civilian and military leadership positions in the Air Force.


I recommended that Michael Donley be nominated to serve as Secretary of the Air Force.

Mike Donley is presently the Director of Administration and Management for the Department of Defense, essentially charged with running the Pentagon and its many complex operations. Mike served as Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Financial Management in the first Bush Administration and, for a period, as Acting Secretary of the Air Force. In order to minimize any disruption caused by this leadership transition, I have also recommended to the President that he designate Mike Donley as Acting Secretary of the Air Force effective June 21.



I further recommended to the President that General Norton Schwartz be nominated to serve as Air Force Chief of Staff.

General Schwartz is presently the Commander of U.S. Transportation Command, which is in charge of the Department's extensive transportation network and worldwide operations. Prior to that, General Schwartz served in senior joint military positions as Director of the Joint Staff, Director for Operations for the Joint Staff and Deputy Commander of Special Operations Command.



In addition, I have recommended two additional Air Force military leadership changes.

First, General Duncan McNabb, the current Air Force Vice Chief of Staff, has been recommended to take General Schwartz's place at US Transportation Command. General McNabb has spent most of his three-plus decades in the Air Force in the areas of lift, refueling and logistics making him an ideal candidate to assume the helm of this command.

Second, I have recommended that the President nominate Lieutenant General William Fraser III, to follow General McNabb as the next Air Force Vice Chief. General Fraser is currently the Assistant to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In that role he is the Chairman's chief liaison and adviser on international relations and political-military matters. In addition to his numerous flying and command assignment in the bomber community, General Fraser has extensive wartime, contingency and humanitarian relief operational experience.


I am confident that Mike Donley, General Schwartz and the new Air Force leadership team have the qualifications, skill and commitment to excellence necessary to guide the Air Force through this transition and beyond.

-Defense Secretary Robert Gates
-----------------------------------------



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Last edited by Tedminator; 06-12-2008 at 12:40 AM.
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