I find both video clips unremarkable. It's war, not touch football. You really expect detached reflection from a 19yr old full of adrenalin after a firefight? Giving a downed enemy a chance to get up and shoot at you some more is generally considered to be flawed judgment in combat situations. What the video clip doesn't show is what happened to bring about the firefight. Most likely the marines were attacked on the highway, then cheered when the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s that did it had been killed. From my own experience, there is very little lifer as worthy of cheering about as when the other (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s are dead and you're not.

While I didn't think going into Iraq when we did was a good decision, the fact is that we did, and it's been just as ugly as all wars are. The Iraqis that stood and fought chose poorly. Those that are still fighting have made even worse choices, as they are not covered under the Geneva protocol.

The 2nd clip appears to be from an Apache helicopter. They are simply going about their business; search and destroy. What did you imagine it is like? This is mild stuff compared to some clips I've seen of Spectre gunships operating. I've seen clips were dozens of people exiting a building and several vehicles are systematically targeted and engaged. That's what we use these tools for. We haven't seen any footage of the firefight for Toro Bora, but I can pretty much guarantee that it would make these clips look mild. You may have noticed that the number of captured combatants at Gitmo is a few hundred out of the tens of thousands encountered. Unless intelligence is sought, what's the point of packing off a wounded Islamic zealot? Afghanistan is a hunt down and kill exercise, period, as it should be.

War is the national equivalent of pointing a gun at someone. The only reason you should ever do it is to protect yourself. However, if the situation comes up that you have to do it, don't screw around, hesitate, or try to make fine distinctions. Make sure the other guy does not get up, even if that means followup shots. That way there is only one story to be told, and you won't be looking over your shoulder for the next umpteen years for some creep looking to get even.

oc

Good point OC... I agree.

__________________
"What does a former president's son know about the Iraq war anyway?"
-- GW Bush when asked about Ron Reagan's negative comments, 6/25/2004.
www.BushZombie.com

OC you're stock is rising.

__________________
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left."
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

I agree with the what did you expect rationale, but its still distrubing, to me anyway. That kid laughing and bragging would be the same type that was mutilating our soldiers corpse in Fallujah had he been raised in Iraq or if we were allowed to dismember bodies.

I find both disturbing, granted the later a bit more because it was one of our own and the graphic nature of it, but like I said that same soldier laughing and bragging is of the same ilk. We have these kids brainwashed into actually enjoying it all, true its what we are trained to do, but there should be a sense of regret of morality. I was lucky to join into the military late instead of right out of high school, otherwise I could have been the same.

I get your point, but don't confuse the euphoria of surviving a first firefight for enjoying killing Joe. The bad dreams and memories come later, not 5 minutes after the fact.

The only aspect of my military service that could be referred to as lucky was that I managed to avoid the worst of what was going around me. I realized early on that nobody else wanted to burn the sawed off 30 gallon drums under the privies, so I volunteered on a regular basis. Pouring in diesel the tossing in a match was light duty, absolutely nobody of any rank messed with you while you were doing it, and it allowed one to avoid all manner of other duties, including the occasional patrol. That war was a losing proposition from the get go, and surviving it was my primary objective.

oc

I get your point too, its just I know first hand we got guys over there that take pleasure in doing this sort of thing and when the media airs it or we show it to journalists we send the wrong message.

My military duties was infanrty till I had a heat stroke during a hike with a 107.6 degree core temp, they said I couldnt be an 0311 anymore so I got sent to operations, S-3, so I was in Camp Rhino during our Afganistan campaign and the most action I saw was what I heard in the comm building and 1 night when a Taliban scout tried to probe our defense by shooting flares into the air. After a few artillery shots and a patrol sent out and discovered an arm and a shotgun that all stopped. But we did launch a cobra that went down and we thought it was shot down and the rounds in the Cobra were "cooking off" and we thought we were under attack, I was by a guard post and saw through my NVGs 2 figures running toward us and the skiddish POGs (personel other than grunts) wanted to open fire and I told them to hold off that they could be the pilots, which they were. So I like to think I may have diverted 2 friendly casualties that night.