![]() |
|
|
|||
|
Historically, international political unions that were successful, had the 3 common characteristics below.
1. They were created against a common enemy, real or imaginary. (USA against the British, medieval Europe against the eastern nomadic invaders and muslims.) 2. They gave a new identity and self image to people, and made them FEEL better/winners. (Nobody in the USA thinks of a repeat of e.g. the Ohio-Michigan wars. In medieval Europe, the closer you were to the church and God, the better your popularity was.) 3. The idea of the union was marketed to everyone every day. (American commercials don't just tell you to buy this product but to buy this American product. Medieval Europe had every Sunday a church day for everyone.) So I guess I have 3 questions: 1. Is the EU created against a common enemy like Russian political threat, Chinese economical pressure, muslim cultural pressure, etc., or is it mainly against the mutual agression of member nations only? 2. Do you FEEL European? A quick look at the map already shows various current national catastrophies like Koenigsberg, Tyrol, Transylvania, Bosnia, Kosovo. In a truely federated Europe, these problem spots would not be taboos but would be directly governed from Brussels. 3. Is the idea of Europe marketed to you, or only to the political elite? Please write your opinions, I'd like to learn more. Thanks. |
| Sponsored Links |
| Red Cross - Donate Today Save the Rainforest |
|
|||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I will agree with you that from a cultural standpoint, medieval Europeans were far closer than today. But politically they were miles and miles away. The Catholic Christian identity (which would dissipate with the Reformation) did function as a common European identity. Quote:
It began from the European Coal and Steel Community. Economics, pure and simple economics. Quote:
Köningsberg a current national catastrophy??? Neither is Tyrol. Wrong century. And I'm not aware of any current boiling national catastrophy in Transylvania either. Bosnia and Kosovo are being worked with, and they are on the slow track to recovery. Do you consider 1930's and 40's current? Quote:
This is all highly theoretical. Europe is not going to federalize soon. Maybe in my lifetime, but it will take decades to even get properly moving. There is very strong opposition to federalization from political elements in most nations. The EU is, and for the timebeing, will remain a primarily economic union. The whole constitution debacle was highly overrated. |
|
|||
|
Quote:
In my experience, I have never been to Romania, but when I met Romanian turists here in New York, they were friendly UNTIL I made the mistake of telling them about my Hungarian ancestry. Also, at a Barbeque party, I met a Romanian couple who were friendly UNTIL my wife who never heard of Romania told them that I was of Hungarian origin. Then they stopped talking to me. So I think the 1930's and 40's are very much alive in Europe, and ready to explode. I think the basic question is: is Europe capable/equipped to face/handle the REAL feelings of its REAL citizens? |
|
|||
|
Forum members are hardly reliable people when it comes to predicting anything. Romanians and Hungarians have no love for each other, but to the extent of war? Not bloody likely.
Especially when the powerful levers of the EU and Russia can easily extinguish any conflict by threatening economic sanctions. Besides, only Hungary is a member of the EU right now. (And that with restrictions) Romania is scheduled to join in 2009, but that might not go on time. When you speak of "Europe" you clearly mean the EU, and the EU is still largely an economic, not a political, union. It is a mistake to assume it is a political one as well, at least right now. For a comparative story, Greece and Turkey. They have been at each others throats for a greater part of the last century, with a few close wars. Now, their relations are much warmer, Greece even endorses Turkey's EU membership. Why? If Turkey joins the EU, the likelyhood of conflict (a war which Greece would probably loose) plummets. The 40's are dead. Their legacy lives, but the problems of their time are not current problems. The ethnic map of Europe was largely redrawn after WWII, with the problem of national minorities greatly diminishing. Austria and Italy will not go to war over Tyrol. Germany would not want the wasted chunk of land known as Kaliningrad back. The borders of Europe are pretty much a settled question, with few border disputes remaining. |
|
|||
|
I think you miss the whole point, ausa999, of the EU; it was as an attempt to break from the warring past that it was initiated! This includes not just ww2, but all of the associated myths, grounded in superstition and unreason, from which they derived.
Its an attempt, not to forge alliances which are founded in a collegiate ignorance in which all find the fellow-feeling in which they can barbarically share...thats the point - énlightenment, if you will. America tried it but have grown tired of some of its trappings of late...
__________________
"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened." |
|
|||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
|||||
|
Quote:
They are still in a transitional phase of being integrated into the EU. Quote:
Quote:
Most European countries are nationally heterogenous, immigrants form a more remarkable minority than specific national minorities. I do not know enough about the specific case of South Tyrol, but the last time it was a major issue was when Mussolini was in office. Quote:
The only disputes I can think of are ones with new EU joining states. Maybe the EU will deal with them, maybe not. Either way, it is not a major issue. |
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
| Sponsored Links |
|