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Old 11-13-2006, 10:22 AM
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Default Is Britain becoming a dictatorship

Is Britain becoming a dictatorship run by a ruling elite interested only in power and what they can get?
To begin with look at how our MPs look after themselves, a nice wage to which they vote themselves a rise each year well above inflation, expenses averaging 130,000 per annum and a nice pension funded by the tax payer which I believe (I am not sure) is granted on retirement to any MP who has served 5 years, they are even introducing legislation that will have the tax payer funding political campaigns. They also line up nice directorships etc when they retire. As for the rest of us, pay rises below inflation, hundreds of final salary pension schemes closing each year with the governments consent, Mr Brown taxing the state pension scheme to the tune of 5 billion each year and telling us all we will have to retire at 75 because the scheme can no longer support retirement for all at 65. I believe MPs are doing very nicely for themselves.
Recent legislation has restricted the right to protest "without permission", enabled the police to arrest under terrorism laws anyone who they believe is a threat with the power to hold them without trial (that is anyone!). I am led to believe that the Queen's speech will unveil yet more cuts in the freedoms of this country. I've noticed a more commonly used phrase on the television now "MPs were not available for comment". Is it me or am I right in believing that MPs are accountable to voters or are we further down the road than I thought?
In all I believe this country to be on a sticky wicket and it's hard to see what can be done to stop the slide. People have become apathetic, they believe they can't do anything or make a difference so they don't try, perfect for our politicians who have Carte Blanche to do as they will.
Time to be afraid, I would venture.
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:34 AM
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Default Don't overstate things

1) MP's receive a pension from the public purse just like any public servant does once they retire
2) Westminster MP's are in the middling range of salaries received by Western world legislators. Salaries are transparent - information is readily available.
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib...6/rp06-047.pdf
3) Public funding for political parties already happens (and happens elsewhere) - the discussion now is about the ratio. As political parties are a crucial element of a working democracy, I see no problem in increased public funding if it reduces the chances of graft.
4) MP's working for private industry once they retire - so what?
5) The state retirement has not moved - what the government is doing is alerting us to changes in demographics. I work with people in their 70s who could retire but choose not to as they don't feel ready for it.
6) The police cannot just hold whomever they want - permission must be obtained from a High Court judge. The legislation to which you refer has been used once since it came onto the statutes.
7) You know what's in the Queen's Speech? How so?
- MP's are accountable to the electorate and not to the media. I've worked in the media and I can't think of many MP's who pass-up the chance for a few minutes on the airwaves.

All in all, what substance is there to your hypothesis that the UK is becoming a 'dictatorship'? Most of your more valid criticisms are directed towards the need for a change of government - which hopefully will happen at the next General Election. I would not argue that the UK is politically apathetic right now - but that is not improved by jeremiahs such as yourself.
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Old 11-13-2006, 12:37 PM
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Default jeremiah is it?

Are you seriousely telling me that there is nothing wrong at the moment that a change of government will not fix. If I'm a jeremiah then your pink glasses must have incredibly strong lenses
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Old 11-13-2006, 01:16 PM
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Default But not a dictatorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by petshrew";p=&quot View Post
Are you seriousely telling me that there is nothing wrong at the moment that a change of government will not fix. If I'm a jeremiah then your pink glasses must have incredibly strong lenses
That is what I said - that a change of government is needed. That is an entirely different thing from howling about how Britain is becoming a dictatorship - which suggests that you really do need stronger lenses in your spectacles.
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Old 11-14-2006, 02:14 AM
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Default Myopia

Quote:
I believe this country to be on a sticky wicket and it's hard to see what can be done to stop the slide
Abso-bloody-lutely old boy - but don't you think you are mixing your metaphors?

But why are people disinterested in politics? We must understand why the vote seems to have lost so much of its appeal and there are two reasons why this is :

First, that whereas the political problems facing this generation are challenging, difficult and interesting, the practice and coverage of politics is shallow, abusive and personalized and that alone is enough to switch us off, since exchanges of insults in parliament, the control freakery of the Millbank Tower apparatchiks and the organized punch ups masterminded on Newsnight simply do not satisfy our desire to know what is going on, why and what we can do about it.

The second reason is much deeper and it is the widely held suspicion that the government itself is apathetic about many of the concerns of those who voted Labour in the last two general elections, a view shared by pensioners facing a cut back in their retirement income and students who cannot understand why they are being asked to pay for their education at college.

People are told that we have to be careful about public expenditure to avoid endangering our economy but there is always plenty of money about to pay for wars in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan and for the Board of Directors in British business who seem to find plenty of cash for their salary boosts, share options and golden handshakes when they fail, living happily in the knowledge that they are not going to be asked to pay a penny more on tax at the top rate.

The government is also believed to be apathetic about the ever-widening gap between rich and poor both here and worldwide where that gap can be clearly attributable to the injustices that flow from globalization which New Labour supports uncritically.

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Old 11-14-2006, 10:25 AM
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Default WOOF WOOF!

To answer a few of your points
1. I am not howling nor am I forcasting doom and gloom, in fact I am very happy with my lot, and, glad I live in Britain, however, I see things happening in this country that cause me concern.
2 OK, dictatorship was a little strong, apologies
3 Your point about pensions. MPs have covered the short fall in their pensions via the tax payer, an option not open to local government workers, nurses etc.
4. My gripe is not what MPs are paid, it is the fact that they award themselves higher than inflation pay rises while other LGOs have to take what is given. Didn't Mr Brown say that he would like LGOs to have a three year pay freeze. Do you think that an average 130,000 expenses claim can be justified?
5. The talk I hear about political funding is that all election expenses for the main three parties will be met by the tax payer, so Cherrie can claim the 7000+ cost of her hair do from me and you in future.
6. Retiring MPs being offered jobs in private industry, so what! Do you think they are employed for their skills in industry, no, they are employed because they have connections which are abused. Why do you think there are laws governing outside interests for working MPs?
7 Later retirement ages are going to happen and the 5billion taxation of the state pension fund a year is not helping. You say you know people of 70 who are not ready to retire, so do I, however, this is not generally the case, and, there are many people in jobs that would be extremely difficult to do after a certain age.
8 The anti terrorism laws are on the statute books and despite what you say they have already been abused by the police several times
9 The Queens speech, I have an idea because I listen. Please listen to the news after it has taken place, and, in anticipation, I told you so!
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:03 PM
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Default Don't kid a kidder

Petshrew - look up the word 'facetious' in a dictionary - it applies to my rhetorical question as to how you know what is to come in the Queen's Speech. You see - governments frequently 'fly a kite' in the time leading up to the State Opening; it's to catch out the gullible and easily led. The smart money waits until the Queen has finished reading before discussing what's coming up. Just a little tip for your future current affairs perambulations.
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:21 PM
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Default Yellow paper suns through windows

I am aware that kites are flown, however, I am seriously concerned that further legislation giving police more power and further cutting freedom is about to be announced all in the name of anti terrorism. There have been so many additions to the statute book many of which are minor but all of which chip away at what we take for granted
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Old 11-14-2006, 01:06 PM
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Default of course you're right but.....

We must be wary of increased powers for the police while at the same time realising that the threat we face today is unlike any we have ever faced. A single radioactive 'dirty bomb' in the City of London would affect every man, woman and child in the country. Aside from the hundreds killed immediately and the thousands destined to suffer the effects of ill-health, you would witness a flight of capital - and of the centres of capital - from the Square Mile. 'Invisibles' are what keep our economy afloat and pay for all of those things we rather like - from the NHS to cold weather payments for Granny Clemmy to aid for the Third World. A serious terror attack on the City would tear the heart out of our economy; a 'dirty bomb' would render parts of the City uninhabitable for decades. This is nothing like the IRA or the Angry Brigade.
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:14 AM
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Default Chosen land? tut! (2,3,8)

I agree there is a current threat to security but how great is it? I know I don't have to go into the thinking of Neo Conservatives as you will be well aware of it, particularly their thoughts on fear and it's effects.
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