Thread: Is the Occitan mutually intelligeble with Paris French?

In my linguistic research of the EU, I found this special and unique latin language, the Occitan. I wonder, if French posters or someone who travelled to South France before, do you observe if Occitan is understandable if you speak French? I know that Georges Pompidou was an Occitan and he identified it with French. But the Principality of Monaco teaches it as a separate language labelled Monesque. What is it likewhen you hear Occitan? Does it work for a French communication? Thanks.

Nowdays in Southern France they speak French. May be with some "southish" accent but still French.

Is the Occitan mutually intelligeble with Paris French?

I think...Partially.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vTj7yw68YU"]un ciutadan occitan explica qu'es èstre occitan uèi - YouTube[/ame]

French is my native language and I speak it with a parisian accent, but I can understand some of what they are saying in the above video. Breizh by comparison is a whole different matter

I thinks it's good to see the resurgence of dialects in France under the EU umbrella.

Originally Posted by Paris

un ciutadan occitan explica qu'es èstre occitan uèi - YouTube

French is my native language and I speak it with a parisian accent, but I can understand some of what they are saying in the above video. Breizh by comparison is a whole different matter

I thinks it's good to see the resurgence of dialects in France under the EU umbrella.

I understand most of that clip. I speak French and Spanish fluently but also understand Italian, Portuguese etc as a by product. I just try to understand and the brain fills in the gaps.

But that makes it quite difficult for me to establish in my brain which language I'm translating. I only listened once and not closely, but I hear Spanish words. Some languages are a hybrid.

All I can say is, I understand what was spoken in the clip and sure I could get by there.

Originally Posted by Viv

I understand most of that clip. I speak French and Spanish fluently but also understand Italian, Portuguese etc as a by product. I just try to understand and the brain fills in the gaps.

But that makes it quite difficult for me to establish in my brain which language I'm translating. I only listened once and not closely, but I hear Spanish words. Some languages are a hybrid.

All I can say is, I understand what was spoken in the clip and sure I could get by there.

Since you are a Scot who can speak Spanish and French fluently, you would probably get by there better than me.

I'm not sure but I think they are speaking Occitan in that clip. The man being interviewed seems to mix it with French and Spanish at times indeed. I couldn't understand every word of it but I could get what they were talking about.

I guess the Occitan suffers from a lack of reconition and ends up using words, etc. from foreign languages such as Spanish and French.

Originally Posted by Paris

I guess the Occitan suffers from a lack of reconition and ends up using words, etc. from foreign languages such as Spanish and French.

Languages evolve anyway, and 'unrecognised' minority languages which aren't supported by daily written use inevitably soak up words from other languages.

I don't know Occitan at all (or French, for that matter!), but using Welsh as an example (which does have much recognition and written support these days, obviously) there are words which have been absorbed from English (and previously by Latin, of course). There are also some Englsih words of Welsh origin, and in Wales many people unthinkingly mix elements of the two languages together when speaking either one of them (whether they speak Welsh or not - there are still words and phrases from Welsh used, and unusual English phrases and constructions that are actually just direct translations from the Welsh that have persisted in English within Wales). I would think that the less a language is 'recognised', and the more 'monority' is, and the less people use it as their first language on a daily basis, the more open it is to being influenced by the other languages being spoken around it.

I do know that France was much less mono-lingual than most people expect until relatively recently in its history, so it's good to see these other languages surviving and being encouraged.

Originally Posted by Paris

Breizh by comparison is a whole different matter

You would probably be more likely to understand Breton as a Welsh speaker than as a French speaker - they are two very closely related 'sister' languages from the common source of the old Brythonic tongue (along with Cornish). They have obviously developed differently, and been influenced by different other languages, over their histories, but apparently they still retain many similar words, constructions and devices (such as mutation of initial consonants according to context).

Originally Posted by cenydd

Languages evolve anyway, and 'unrecognised' minority languages which aren't supported by daily written use inevitably soak up words from other languages.

I don't know Occitan at all (or French, for that matter!), but using Welsh as an example (which does have much recognition and written support these days, obviously) there are words which have been absorbed from English (and previously by Latin, of course). There are also some Englsih words of Welsh origin, and in Wales many people unthinkingly mix elements of the two languages together when speaking either one of them (whether they speak Welsh or not - there are still words and phrases from Welsh used, and unusual English phrases and constructions that are actually just direct translations from the Welsh that have persisted in English within Wales). I would think that the less a language is 'recognised', and the more 'monority' is, and the less people use it as their first language on a daily basis, the more open it is to being influenced by the other languages being spoken around it.

I do know that France was much less mono-lingual than most people expect until relatively recently in its history, so it's good to see these other languages surviving and being encouraged.


You would probably be more likely to understand Breton as a Welsh speaker than as a French speaker - they are two very closely related 'sister' languages from the common source of the old Brythonic tongue (along with Cornish). They have obviously developed differently, and been influenced by different other languages, over their histories, but apparently they still retain many similar words, constructions and devices (such as mutation of initial consonants according to context).

I tried to find an interview in Breton but didn't find it. Apparently this is a breton song, I was wondering if you could understand it:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MImv7d8-DI"]Breton folk music - Soazig - Ar Soudarded - YouTube[/ame]

I can only get the word army/armé but it is beautiful. Perhaps you can tell what it is about?

Sadly dialects/un-official languages have often been repressed in France by way of force, confirming the aphorism which links an official language to the size of its army.

And now I'm left wondering for the life of me if I am to rejoice in the fact that we are only able to have this conversation in English

Originally Posted by Paris

I tried to find an interview in Breton but didn't find it. Apparently this is a breton song, I was wondering if you could understand it:

I suspect that he might have a bit of trouble with it. (Perhaps not though) To a non-native French speaker, spoken Breton sounds like French. Even if the words aren't similarly formed, the pitch and accent (which really account more for how people perceive languages anyway) sound alike. There's a specific term for this sort of phenomenon, but I'm not remembering it at the moment. It basically revolves around less prestigious, minority languages gradually adapting accents that are in many ways similar to the main, prestige dialect spoken where they live.

I think that probably, even if there were mutual intelligibility in the written language between Welsh and Breton, it would be non existent in the spoken language. The effect would most likely not be unlike when you hear an Englishman trying to speak French with such a heavy accent that you do not at first realize that he is, in fact, attempting to speak French.

But maybe I am wrong and cenydd will surprise me.

Originally Posted by Plymouth

I suspect that he might have a bit of trouble with it. (Perhaps not though) To a non-native French speaker, spoken Breton sounds like French. Even if the words aren't similarly formed, the pitch and accent (which really account more for how people perceive languages anyway) sound alike. There's a specific term for this sort of phenomenon, but I'm not remembering it at the moment. It basically revolves around less prestigious, minority languages gradually adapting accents that are in many ways similar to the main, prestige dialect spoken where they live.

I think that probably, even if there were mutual intelligibility in the written language between Welsh and Breton, it would be non existent in the spoken language. The effect would most likely not be unlike when you hear an Englishman trying to speak French with such a heavy accent that you do not at first realize that he is, in fact, attempting to speak French.

But maybe I am wrong and cenydd will surprise me.

I'm eager to hear from cenydd as Breton sounds to me very different from French and English, while Occitan sounds familiar with French and Spanish.

Very interesting that you say Breton sounds like French to you, especially since you seem to have a fairly good French.

But you're probably right about that Englishman. And since I'm used to hearing mostly American English, we might experience some sort of mal entendre

Originally Posted by Paris

I'm eager to hear from cenydd as Breton sounds to me very different from French and English, while Occitan sounds familiar with French and Spanish.

Very interesting that you say Breton sounds like French to you, especially since you seem to have a fairly good French.

But you're probably right about that Englishman. And since I'm used to hearing mostly American English, we might experience some sort of mal entendre

I am Spanish and catalan native speaker. And although occitan written is quite similar to catalan written, spoken is quite hard for me to understand it. Although something I understood.