Thread: Western-European Turks Buying-Off Turkish Military Service -- Very Disturbing:

So, there was a newsreport on TV earlier tonight that showed an entire mob of Belgians of Turkish descent assembling before the Turkish Embassy in Brussels who wanted to buy of their military service in Turkey for €5000, since Turkey recently voted a law to make this €10 000!

I was under the impression this was only for Turkish immigrants, so I thought -- not that bad of a deal.

NO!

This military service apparantly is also mandatory for Belgians of Turkish descent who were born in Belgium, but since Turkey grants them automatic citizenship... they have dual citizenship.

Even more bizarre, some men in front of the Embassy explained that they have dual Belgian-Turkish citizenship but they can't denounce their Turkish citizenship, so they wouldn't fullfill their mandatory Turkish military service to begin with, and thus saving €5000 or €10000, because Turkey doesn't allow it before they did their military service, or of course, payed the €5000 (soon €10 000) fee!!!

I find this utterly outrageous for sure, and I expect swift action to be taken -- coordinated -- by Western European countries (Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Denmark & Austria) since this is just money that basically is shipped to Turkey that could have ended up in our economies via consumption or investments...

This is a Dutch newspaper article I have found on the subject:

PVV Urges to Stop Loans to Turks for Buying-off Military Service

THE HAGUE, 09/11/11 - The Party for Freedom (PVV) wants to get rid of the system whereby Dutch nationals of Turkish origin are able to get a loan from the government to buy out of their national service requirement in Turkey.

Turks who do not live in Turkey must carry out their obligatory national service, generally of 15 months. This applies to al men with dual Dutch and Turkish nationality, even if they were born in the Netherlands. In the past, The Hague has unsuccessfully asked Ankara to give up this policy.

The Turkish Dutch can buy out of the service obligation for 5,000 euros and follow an abbreviated military training course of 21 days. The Dutch defence ministry provides interest-free loans for this. That must stop, in the view of PVV MP Marcel Hernandez.

"Henk and Ingrid (the stereotypical Dutch couple) are still paying for the defence of Turkey," complained Hernandez. He wants the Turkish Dutch to give up their Turkish passports if they want to get out of the national service obligation.

The minister was not immediately leaping to abolish the scheme, but said yesterday that he will leave it up to the Lower House as to whether it wants to abolish the system or not. Hernandez is hoping for the support of Labour (PvdA) and the Christian democrats (CDA).

Again -- I find this truely bizarre and uttertly outrageous.

Originally Posted by janpor

So, there was a newsreport on TV earlier tonight that showed an entire mob of Belgians of Turkish descent assembling before the Turkish Embassy in Brussels who wanted to buy of their military service in Turkey for €5000, since Turkey recently voted a law to make this €10 000!.

Unfortunately modern Turkey has too much very disturbing "laws".

Maybe Schengen-countries should charge every Turkish citizen €1500 for issueing a Schengen-visa to them, and put that into a special fund called "European Fund Against Turkish Silliness" or something, out of which we can buy our citizens their freedom back so that they can continue to work at their jobs, pay taxes and contibute to our economies.

I mean, €10000 is a large amount of money.

There must be a way to stop this Turkish madness.

Maybe no longer allowing Turkish immigration, brides, and force every Turkish citizen to drop their Turkish nationality or leave the country. the problem would be fixed fast,

Originally Posted by janpor

Maybe Schengen-countries should charge every Turkish citizen €1500 for issueing a Schengen-visa to them, and put that into a special fund called "European Fund Against Turkish Silliness" or something, out of which we can buy our citizens their freedom back so that they can continue to work at their jobs, pay taxes and contibute to our economies.

I mean, €10000 is a large amount of money.

There must be a way to stop this Turkish madness.

I agree with you that military service is a silly event and there must be right to reject it like in Europe.

On the other hand if there is a military service in Turkey of course all citizens have to do it, this is need of equalism. If they would give this change to me, i could even give 15.000 - 20000 Euros for this, but this right is given only if you are abroad and worked there officially at least 3 years. If you have double passport you are free to cancell Turkish one so Turkey doesn't press people. And is it logical that when i spend my best 6 months or 15 monthes (if you don't have bachelor degree) another one will be free? This is also worse for Europe because this will be a very valuable reason to move Europe as immigrant. So this is correct in wrong system.

Don't forget in Turkey Turkish Citizens don't have this right while Western citizens have this, recently Parlemantary decided to give this right to Turkish Citizens in Turkey (3th time in 88 years history) and they have to pay something around 13000 Euro and have to be 30 or older years old.

Maybe Schengen-countries should charge every Turkish citizen €1500 for issueing a Schengen-visa to them, and put that into a special fund called "European Fund Against Turkish Silliness"

What about Schengen countries are asking 65 Euros every time for visa, for what they take this money? If you consider that milions of Turks goes to Europe for job, trawel e.t.c, Europe already take this money back from Turks. I know what kind of the treassure i payed to Schengen and to consulate untill now.

Administration costs vs 13.000 euro to pay off military conscription in a nation you do not even live in.

Originally Posted by DutchClogCyborg

Administration costs vs 13.000 euro to pay off military conscription in a nation you do not even live in.

It is 10.000 for people lives abroad, 13 tousand for people in Turkey (only if over 30 year-old and only for ''1 time'' with a special law normally we don't have this right even you pay 1 milion)

Meanwhile If they don't live there, they could cancell their passport, but all these people don't feel secure with their EU passport they always feel to be kicked one day by people like you and they want to keep also their Turkish passport. How they can feel that 8 of them are killed by Neo Nazis with plan only because of their nationality in 2000s. They feel if one day they will be kicked only Turkey will open the doors without questions. If Europe wants to block this, they have to give more secure to them, than they will all cancell their Turkish Passports and money will stay there.

You ''DutchClogCyborg'' don't you say always the best for them to be kicked to their country back? And there are many people like you so of course they will flirt with Turkey to be ready for the risk that one day again people in your mind will have the goverments and the full power.

Now i see that you started be deffender of your citizens with Turkish decent, i liked it, this is good movement for you...

On the otherhand do you have any idea why EU embassies asking 65 euros whenever we apply for visa and some extra money for embassy?

From a chat with me and embassy secratary one of EU country:

I: I am sorry i missed the 1 doc about my bank account,
Secratary: No problem you are our good customer.

Yes they should fear being kicked out if they are criminal, and feel far more loyalty towards turkey then the nation they were born in, raised in, and which spend money on their education and health.

Perhaps realize that the real problem is turkey giving automatic citizenship to any child born to turkish parents.

Originally Posted by janpor

So, there was a newsreport on TV earlier tonight that showed an entire mob of Belgians of Turkish descent assembling before the Turkish Embassy in Brussels who wanted to buy of their military service in Turkey for €5000, since Turkey recently voted a law to make this €10 000!

I was under the impression this was only for Turkish immigrants, so I thought -- not that bad of a deal.

NO!

This military service apparantly is also mandatory for Belgians of Turkish descent who were born in Belgium, but since Turkey grants them automatic citizenship... they have dual citizenship.

Even more bizarre, some men in front of the Embassy explained that they have dual Belgian-Turkish citizenship but they can't denounce their Turkish citizenship, so they wouldn't fullfill their mandatory Turkish military service to begin with, and thus saving €5000 or €10000, because Turkey doesn't allow it before they did their military service, or of course, payed the €5000 (soon €10 000) fee!!!

I find this utterly outrageous for sure, and I expect swift action to be taken -- coordinated -- by Western European countries (Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Denmark & Austria) since this is just money that basically is shipped to Turkey that could have ended up in our economies via consumption or investments...

This is a Dutch newspaper article I have found on the subject:

PVV Urges to Stop Loans to Turks for Buying-off Military Service




Again -- I find this truely bizarre and uttertly outrageous.

this is another attempt for turkey to extract foriegn money from europe to go back to turkey...simple

Originally Posted by haydar

It is 10.000 for people lives abroad, 13 tousand for people in Turkey (only if over 30 year-old and only for ''1 time'' with a special law normally we don't have this right even you pay 1 milion)

Meanwhile If they don't live there, they could cancell their passport, but all these people don't feel secure with their EU passport they always feel to be kicked one day by people like you and they want to keep also their Turkish passport. How they can feel that 8 of them are killed by Neo Nazis with plan only because of their nationality in 2000s. They feel if one day they will be kicked only Turkey will open the doors without questions. If Europe wants to block this, they have to give more secure to them, than they will all cancell their Turkish Passports and money will stay there.

Haydar,...

First of all, a lot of them don't want to denounce their dual-citizenship -- which I understand. If I should be living in Turkey, I wouldn't give away my Belgian citizenship either! Even when I should be living in Germany, France, Canada, etc.

However, people who want to cancel their Turkish citizenship are not able to do so, since the entire procedure needs to be approved by Turkish bureacracy. One of the requirements is that you already have concluded your military service... what a joke!

I think it's just institutionalized extortion from Turkish government towards European citizens of Turkish descent -- it's utterly unfair treatment by Turkey of my fellow countrymen.

BTW -- the idea alone of kicking out Turks is just crazy, Haydar. And in case you haven't noticed: Neo-Nazism isn't the norm in Germany -- far from it.

Originally Posted by haydar

[...]

On the otherhand do you have any idea why EU embassies asking 65 euros whenever we apply for visa and some extra money for embassy?

From a chat with me and embassy secratary one of EU country:

I: I am sorry i missed the 1 doc about my bank account,
Secratary: No problem you are our good customer.

These are just administrational costs to make sure that the embassy/consulate pays for itself -- I hope you don't expect that Western European countries should "lose" money because people from outside want to come here -- taxpayer wouldn't stand for it.

BTW -- the Secretary calling you a good "customer" can mean different things, e.g. he likes you, he trusts you, etc.