Thread: Scottish Independence Consultation Paper

Originally Posted by fredc

My stance on this is the same as my stance on much of world politics. Throughout history the people of both Scotland and England have been dumped upon by a ruling elite of psychopaths who have manipulated them with things like patriotism, fear and lies. When the people stand together we can start moving forward to a better world but while they divide and conquer we are destined to remain slaves.

I have always opposed slimeballs like Salmond and Souter and I always will. They might have you in their pocket but they don't have me.

At the moment revenue from North Sea oil amounts to one or two percent of the total British revenue, if the prices fluctuate it doesn't affect the economy too much. In an independent Scotland oil would constitute over an eighth of the economy, if we get peace in the Middle East Scotland goes broke.

Yet you totally ignore that Scottish devolution which has led to the referendum was a consequence of that lack of democracy particularly in Scotland and the North of England. You ignore the real politics. You ignore what this is really about so in reality you shut your eyes to the political.

Scottish people are choosing democracy. English chose Corporate Globalism. Your decision. though this is as usual off topic.

Originally Posted by fredc

My stance on this is the same as my stance on much of world politics. Throughout history the people of both Scotland and England have been dumped upon by a ruling elite of psychopaths who have manipulated them with things like patriotism, fear and lies. When the people stand together we can start moving forward to a better world but while they divide and conquer we are destined to remain slaves.

I have always opposed slimeballs like Salmond and Souter and I always will. They might have you in their pocket but they don't have me.

At the moment revenue from North Sea oil amounts to one or two percent of the total British revenue, if the prices fluctuate it doesn't affect the economy too much. In an independent Scotland oil would constitute over an eighth of the economy, if we get peace in the Middle East Scotland goes broke.

Right, I'm giving in and making an off topic post in my own thread.

So to summarize you are unionist. We agree on ruling psychopaths and manipulation and one such leader tied Scotland into the UK union without its consent. We don't agree that life for people in Scotland is good because we are united, so how much do you know about Scotland and the economy here?

From my perspective, London is ok but there are no decent jobs up here. The UK provides a financial safety net for the unemployed, but that is no good to me. The people have no responsibility or desire to create their own wealth under UK. My personal feeling is they are subconsciously against the union and immobilised by the psychological effects of being part of the UK. In other words, until they exit the union, the national psyche will not be right and they will not take ownership of their own economy.

You view Salmond as one of those psychopathic leaders, while I don't view him through rose tinted glasses but I view UK political leaders as much more likely to dump on this country than he is, perhaps because in a smaller country there is more scrutiny and direct accountability than there is in the UK set up.

At the moment, being part of the UK feels very much like slavery to me. I don't like the culture, I don't like how the family has evolved into a non-family because of all the focus on materialism and when there was enough work people worked all hours in pursuit of the materialist dream and forgot about life inside the home, which has to be detrimental to both children and the elderly who are not exactly cared for within the family. I don't like UK employment policy of allowing globals to pick up investment incentives and employ people on short term contracts, then bugger off elsewhere leaving people high and dry. I don't like UK policy regarding energy on any level. Nuclear waste, nuclear weapons, nuclear power and bills through the roof while energy companies rake in astronomical profits. Who the f does that benefit, Monte Carlo banks? The pursuit of oil and how we are held to ransom over it by those countries who have it, is ridiculous. Going to war over oil is worse than ridiculous. It is criminal. We should be moving to renewables, throwing money into development short term to extricate the country from very stupid dependence on oil.

Oil is a by product of the debate for me. It's transient. Scotland is innovative and will become more so unleashed from UK culture, because we are creative people and enjoy creating and working hard, we will always produce new ideas. I don't have any fear at all on that score, the people by their nature will produce if the culture supports it.

Returning to Salmond, I don't see him in any idealist light. At best, he is a capable politician and more capable than any UK politician at the moment but he is human and makes mistakes. I also remember an interview when the devolved Parliament was being set up, Salmond absented himself to work elsewhere and effectively intimated he was glad to be going elsewhere as it was a terrible prospect having to set it all up. Not impressive.

I personally think he is well aware of the pitfalls and it is a poisoned chalice, but he is the best man for the job and better for the country than UK and where you may see him as corrupt, I see him as Henri Quatre..."Paris is worth a mass". If he extricates Scotland from UK enslavement and releases the country's potential, his flaws are acceptable for that return.

Originally Posted by alexa

Yet you totally ignore that Scottish devolution which has led to the referendum was a consequence of that lack of democracy particularly in Scotland and the North of England. You ignore the real politics. You ignore what this is really about so in reality you shut your eyes to the political.

Scottish people are choosing democracy. English chose Corporate Globalism. Your decision. though this is as usual off topic.

It's not the political I shut my eyes to, I shut my eyes to the irrational.

Once Scotland's economy is hydrocarbon based the Corporations have you by the short and curlies, right where they want you. Doesn't matter who you elect they'll do as they are told or else.

Originally Posted by fredc

It's not the political I shut my eyes to, I shut my eyes to the irrational.

Once Scotland's economy is hydrocarbon based the Corporations have you by the short and curlies, right where they want you. Doesn't matter who you elect they'll do as they are told or else.

I will answer this on the Independence thread

Originally Posted by fredc

It's not the political I shut my eyes to, I shut my eyes to the irrational.

Once Scotland's economy is hydrocarbon based the Corporations have you by the short and curlies, right where they want you. Doesn't matter who you elect they'll do as they are told or else.

If it's still in the hands of corporations...

Originally Posted by lunecat

Double posting !

Waste of everyones time and against Forum rules.

But he does have a wonderful intellectual understanding of your bias and more to the point...... concise!

Regards
Highlander

Originally Posted by fredc

My stance on this is the same as my stance on much of world politics. Throughout history the people of both Scotland and England have been dumped upon by a ruling elite of psychopaths who have manipulated them with things like patriotism, fear and lies. When the people stand together we can start moving forward to a better world but while they divide and conquer we are destined to remain slaves.

I have always opposed slimeballs like Salmond and Souter and I always will. They might have you in their pocket but they don't have me.

At the moment revenue from North Sea oil amounts to one or two percent of the total British revenue, if the prices fluctuate it doesn't affect the economy too much. In an independent Scotland oil would constitute over an eighth of the economy, if we get peace in the Middle East Scotland goes broke.

Aah...I now see your colours!

You wish to sit on the fence and bat for both sides!
Well you'll never lose an argument...you'll always be right!

But you have no political principles nor honour.....!


Regards
Highlander

Originally Posted by highlander

Aah...I now see your colours!

You wish to sit on the fence and bat for both sides!
Well you'll never lose an argument...you'll always be right!

But you have no political principles nor honour.....!


Regards
Highlander

He's batting for the slimeball UK politicians rather than the slimeball Scottish politicians, so he has chosen sides in this at least.

I can see why anyone can be a Unionist, just as I can see why anyone can be a conspiracy theorist or a religious person...its how their minds work...but it is the irrationality and virulence which gets me.

It is akin to talking to a born again evangelising Christian who hears only the voices in his own head which tell him he is right and everybody else is wrong.

Their attitude to Religion leaves much to be desired .
Outside the main Church in Glasgow there is a large Advertisement Board which says
"Drink is your enemy "
Underneath , a Jock has scribbled ,
" Love your Enemy "