Thread: Scottish Independence Consultation Paper

Originally Posted by diamond lil

What is one benefit independence would bring to Scotland?

The answer could be this: why should Scotland prefer London to Brussels? Also, an independent Scotland may become the "leader" for continental ethnic groups that have been made impossible by nationalistic assimilation, and many of which are already history. Although it is also possible that Scotland will become the newest and most blood-thirsty EU nation state, drawing its power from the continental nation states, to balance against London. What would be your bet?

(Disclaimer: "ethnic groups" don't mean 20th century immigrant communities.)

Originally Posted by Oddquine

Have to say discussion would be a fine change. So far all there has been on the subject of Scottish Independence on any thread from Unionists is sneering, insults, misrepresentation and other attempts at biased manipulation.

So go for it...... give us the first intelligent question on the subject to be found on this forum to date and start the discussion you appear to welcome.

You have made many a fine post on this board, OQ, but that is one of my favourites. I am heartily sick of the sniping sneering mouthy half wits who invariably wander into any thread about Scotland, never knowing the first thing about the situation but invariably talking down to all and sundry from the vantage point of the mentally regressed.

Originally Posted by waltky

Aye laddie, let's vote to be free an' independent...

Scotland likely to hold a vote on independence from Britain
February 9, 2012, Nationalists have been dreaming of divorce for years, but many Scots want to stay part of the United Kingdom. A referendum could be held in 2014.

The wars which ended the Catholic attempts to regain the UK were civil wars, Scots fighting English, Scots fighting Scots and Scots fighting with English as part of the army which wanted to unite UK and eradicate Catholic leadership.

It was not England against Scotland, contrary to romantic tosh put about to attract tourists and sympathy and embellished by English arrogants (yes I said arrogants) to try to make Scots feel inadequate and on the back heel politically.

Originally Posted by Viv

The wars which ended the Catholic attempts to regain the UK were civil wars, Scots fighting English, Scots fighting Scots and Scots fighting with English as part of the army which wanted to unite UK and eradicate Catholic leadership.

It was not England against Scotland, contrary to romantic tosh put about to attract tourists and sympathy and embellished by English arrogants (yes I said arrogants) to try to make Scots feel inadequate and on the back heel politically.

Inadequate? Is this a form of mind control? If it is, it works pretty well, considering the relationship of the Republic of Ireland to the UK, or the former African colonies to the UK. Even with their independence, they still think they would be inferior to the City and try to find evidence to boost their shafted ego. American lesson for your solution: borrow our even bigger in-your-face arrogance, straight from New York, Hollywood, and Washington.

Originally Posted by Iolo

Well. obviously, it would no longer have to live under an exploitive foreign government controlled by the City, the Yanks and the bankers. If only we could sell the home counties to the Russians and have a decent Britain again!

I think he was asking for logical argument not more of the same Nationalist sentiment and anti English prejudice.

To start with, considering people in Scotland already have far more self determination than people in England do how can the right to self determination be a logical argument in favour of independence?

Originally Posted by fredc

I think he was asking for logical argument not more of the same Nationalist sentiment and anti English prejudice.

To start with, considering people in Scotland already have far more self determination than people in England do how can the right to self determination be a logical argument in favour of independence?

LMAO... where is the logic in dependence if as you suggest, Scotland already has an amount of self determination? It is a completely natural progression to finish the job.

Originally Posted by Viv

LMAO... where is the logic in dependence if as you suggest, Scotland already has an amount of self determination? It is a completely natural progression to finish the job.

No it isn't, there is nothing natural in it at all.

Scotland already has a say in matters pertaining to all of Britain. They already have absolute control of matters pertaining only to Scotland. They also have a say in matters pertaining only to England and Wales. Scottish MPs vote on laws which affect only England and Wales yet MPs outside Scotland don't vote on laws pertaining only to Scotland.

So how can the right to self determination be a logical argument for independence?

I'm trying to make a logical debate based on the facts here.

Originally Posted by fredc

No it isn't, there is nothing natural in it at all.

Scotland already has a say in matters pertaining to all of Britain. They already have absolute control of matters pertaining only to Scotland. They also have a say in matters pertaining only to England and Wales. Scottish MPs vote on laws which affect only England and Wales yet MPs outside Scotland don't vote on laws pertaining only to Scotland.

So how can the right to self determination be a logical argument for independence?

I'm trying to make a logical debate based on the facts here.

You are not making any argument. You don't understand it, you don't like it, the end.

We all know the set up of UK Government, so what? England was given opportunity to vote on various local set ups and chose what they have. Now they are sorry and no doubt things will change rather more swiftly than they did when other UK countries were ruled by a government which did not prioritize anything other than London (oh wait, that is still happening).

But choice is the point. Scotland is a different country with a different culture. It has lost interest in this alliance and if it chooses to end membership of a useless union for every reason any country exists, then who are you to gainsay the people and why would you even attempt it? Unless you are Scottish, it's none of your business.

Originally Posted by Viv

You are not making any argument. You don't understand it, you don't like it, the end.

We all know the set up of UK Government, so what? England was given opportunity to vote on various local set ups and chose what they have. Now they are sorry and no doubt things will change rather more swiftly than they did when other UK countries were ruled by a government which did not prioritize anything other than London (oh wait, that is still happening).

But choice is the point. Scotland is a different country with a different culture. It has lost interest in this alliance and if it chooses to end membership of a useless union for every reason any country exists, then who are you to gainsay the people and why would you even attempt it? Unless you are Scottish, it's none of your business.

"Unless you are Scottish, it's none of your business." is I'm afraid not reasoned rational or logical argument furthermore it does not answer the question.

It is also not factual, I am not Scottish but it is very much my business.

Once again.

Given that someone in Scotland already has more self determination than someone in England how can the right to self determination be a logical argument for independence?

Originally Posted by fredc

"Unless you are Scottish, it's none of your business." is I'm afraid not reasoned rational or logical argument furthermore it does not answer the question.

The question was answered. That you don't agree with the logical answer is a matter for you. Repeating it over and over makes no difference.

It is also not factual, I am not Scottish but it is very much my business.

And we are to take your word on that also. In what way is it your business?

Once again.

Given that someone in Scotland already has more self determination than someone in England how can the right to self determination be a logical argument for independence?

Once again, that lack of a question makes no sense whatsoever and repeating it doesn't change the pointlessness of it.