"Best Country to Live In" List, 2007 - Page 9

bogus_truth · #81 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugalugs

Iceland, Norway, Australia - Top 3 countries to live in ALL SOCIALIST!!!

Hooray for Socialism!!!!!

Well not so fast...none of these countries are pure socialist...even in comparison America is more socialist than these countries.

All have similar social programs like education, social security, governmental agencies protecting rights, labour unions, civil programs like post, police and fire departments, minimum wage, etc. All socialist programs.

Fascist Canuck · #82 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogus_truth

Well not so fast...none of these countries are pure socialist...even in comparison America is more socialist than these countries.

All have similar social programs like education, social security, governmental agencies protecting rights, labour unions, civil programs like post, police and fire departments, minimum wage, etc. All socialist programs.

Remember, Americans are so stupid they think Canada is a socialist country. They even think our medical system is entirely socialist, which it is not. 'Duh?' at all Americans.

Fascist Canuck · #83 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogus_truth

that is subjective perception, not a fact. just like soviets, americans are victims of their government's powerful misinformation and propaganda machine...who is right? neither. the world laughs.

What enemies? How can you remove enemies you cant see? So far, two of the strongest political and economic allys of the USA is Saudia Arabia and Kuwait...both basically have told both Bush administrations to "jump", they have responded "how high"...last I saw, they are both the wealthiest countries in the middle east. Your views seem more clandestine than reality.

web definitions of Irony:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&d...ition&ct=title

again, subjective opinion, not fact. meanwhile in the USA with the Red Witch hunts and human rights abuses that denied civil rights to many American citizens until mid 60's when Lyndon B Johhson signed Civil Rights Act, USA was in the business of fascist opression. By the way...its was some 20 years after the Soviets defeated European Fascism, that USA finally got on board with free democracy. the James Bond film franchise has been around longer than AMerica has been a free democracy...they have a longer history of slave state.

false...there was no starvation...american nukes didnt amount to anything...the soviet union outranked american nukes 3 to 1. The only country to have ever defeated the mighty Soviet Union was Afghanistan...the proxy wars between usa and ussr (korea, cuba, vietnam), the US lost.

the USA played a very minor role in the break up of the Soviet Union...again, that is mis skewed american propaganda that isnt found in any historical reference or scholastic, its urban legend not substantiated by any evidence.

The soviet bloc countries in Europe fell from within first....obviously other intelligence agencies came on board to provide underground support in typical IN methods.

reasons for soviet bloc countries fell:
Lech Walesa, Mikael Gorbachev and a handfull of his supporters, labour unionization, labour strikes.

the Berlin wall came down, why? a mistake made by a member of the DDR's governement....America, Nato had absolutely nothing to do with the fall of the wall nor the fall of the most successful Soviet Bloc country (even more so than the USSR): DDR (east germany)

The EU isnt a nation or a soveriegn governing body. they are applied economics, trade, labour union. The strongest in the world, I might add...hence, why asia and usa answer to the eu. Some countries within the EU not only wanted to invade...but had the plans years prior....the invasion of Iraq wasnt an overnight thing...neither was the Gulf War....this was all planned, quite well. Think about George HW Bush's history, business partners with SA, who was most threatened by what happend to be the biggest untapped oil resource in the mid east...funny how that works out. Bush Sr's affiliations within his power (former director of the CIA) and as vice president, complete control over secret service gave him great position for his long term plans....back then he could have almost wrote the time line all the way to today. He is simply a brilliant genius...extremely intelligent. Everything he planned has come to fruition...regardless of any hurddles like current stability situation in Iraq.

Afghanistan defeated the Soviets? *ROTFLMAO* When did this happen? They withdrew due to costs that could no longer be sustained by their failing economy. I would suggest you look at the date of their withdrawal, then at the date when the Soviet Union collapsed. It is a mere coincidence? Duh?

Skeptikos Examiner · #84 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 05:56 AM

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Originally Posted by bogus_truth

ridiculous and unsubstantiated.

Spain? because of climate? yeah, okay. They have only been a free democracy for about 30 years....as more than half a century of Franco's Fascist rule until mid 70's at his death has made it hard for Spain to get up to speed. Franco was the last of the European Fascist Dictators...his friends Hitler and Mussolini met their demise due to their people's displeasure and/or their downfall.

It's not about the wealth, it's about the quality of living! Those two things are only partly connected! Spain has a good climate, a lot of beaches, a lower costs of living. Overall Spain is a much better place to live than lets say Germany.

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Originally Posted by bogus_truth

ridiculous and unsubstantiated.

True Scandinavian countries are very strong and all of them rank top in the world in all aspects of the good life.

however, netherlands, england, the mighty germany (europe's biggest economy, the world's largest importer, by itself the 3rd biggest economy of the world), switzerland, austria, luxembourg (world's wealthiest country), belgium are very stable, very progressive and extremely wealthy.

Wealth does not necessarily translates to a high quality of living! Britain I believe is number one in Europe when it comes to antidepressiva consumption and that tells you a lot about the quality of living! Happy people do not need tons of drugs to make it over the day!

I live in Germany around 15km (~10miles) from the "boarders" to the Netherlands and Belgium and I can tell you that life here sucks and that most natives talk about not much else but possible places to move to! Freedoms are non-existent and the high level of immigrants and all the problems they bring with them is rendering life more unendurable with every new day.

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Originally Posted by bogus_truth

Climates? pffft....that is subjective criteria that isnt even worth mentioning.

Humans developed in tropic regions, the human body is heavily influenced by climate and other environmental factor in his natural well being which is directly related to the quality of living!

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Originally Posted by bogus_truth

So europe currently ranks as the world's largest, most significant economic and political influence...however, in your opinion based on weather and how well an Aloe Vera plant grows, they are in decline. how absurd.

That's because most of the rest of the world is a third world (*)(*)(*)(*) hole! Compared to (*)(*)(*)(*) almost everything is better but that does not say much about its absolute quality! Wealth does not equal happiness, happiness and those things which are truly important for the well being of people are declining here since good a century! My ancestors a century ago enjoyed a quality of live most people today in Europe can not even imagine!

Europe is becoming a socialistic hell hole and the native people who love freedom are moving out to places like New Zealand, Australia, in larger numbers than what comes in as immigrants! Britain, Germany, and the Netherlands rank at the top in this aspect, the natives are leaving in horror!

Skeptikos Examiner · #85 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugalugs

Iceland, Norway, Australia - Top 3 countries to live in ALL SOCIALIST!!!

Hooray for Socialism!!!!!

It's only fake socialism, a capitalist economy connected with a welfare state! And that's not the reason for the high quality of living, it's the low number of non-Europeans in those countries which is responsible for the high quality of living and well being enjoyed there! Of course, Europeans are not allowed to live in peace among themselves and those countries already took steps to become "more diverse"!

They don't want us to have means of comparison, once it's equally bad everywhere people will have no choice but to believe that life is "super plus good"!

“‘Comrades!’ cried an eager youthful voice. ‘Attention, comrades! We have glorious news for you. We have won the battle for production! Returns now completed of the output of all classes of consumption goods show that the standard of living has risen by no less than 20 per cent over the past year. All over Oceania this morning there were irrepressible spontaneous demonstrations when workers marched out of factories and offices and paraded through the streets with banners voicing their gratitude to Big Brother for the new, happy life which his wise leadership has bestowed upon us. ..

The phrase ‘our new, happy life’ recurred several times. It had been a favourite of late with the Ministry of Plenty. Parsons, his attention caught by the trumpet call, sat listening with a sort of gaping solemnity, a sort of edified boredom. He could not follow the figures, but he was aware that they were in some way a cause for satisfaction. .. For the moment he had shut his ears to the remoter noises and was listening to the stuff that streamed out of the telescreen. It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty−four hours? Yes, they swallowed it. Parsons swallowed it easily, with the stupidity of an animal. The eyeless creature at the other table swallowed it fanatically, passionately, with a furious desire to track down, denounce, and vaporize anyone who should suggest that last week the ration had been thirty grammes. Syme, too−in some more complex way, involving doublethink, Syme swallowed it. Was he, then, alone in the possession of a memory?

The fabulous statistics continued to pour out of the telescreen. As compared with last year there was more food, more clothes, more houses, more furniture, more cooking− pots, more fuel, more ships, more helicopters, more books, more babies ore of everything except disease, crime, and insanity. Year by year and minute by minute, everybody and everything was whizzing rapidly upwards. As Syme had done earlier Winston had taken up his spoon and was dabbling in the pale−coloured gravy that dribbled across the table, drawing a long streak of it out into a pattern. He meditated resentfully on the physical texture of life. Had it always been like this? .. was it not a sign that this was not the natural order of things, if one’s heart sickened at the discomfort and dirt and scarcity, the interminable winters, the stickiness of one’s socks, the lifts that never worked, the cold water, the gritty soap, the cigarettes that came to pieces, the food with its strange evil tastes? Why should one feel it to be intolerable unless one had some kind of ancestral memory that things had once been different?” – George Orwell, “1984″

In the case of our western world, it’s not a lack of food, of comfort, it’s the feeling of being restricted, the lack of freedom, the lack of space, which tells one that at some point in our ancestral past things must have been better.

Sadistic-Savior · #86 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 06:14 AM

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that is subjective perception, not a fact. just like soviets, americans are victims of their government's powerful misinformation and propaganda machine...who is right?

America also has a free press, which frequently criticizes the government.

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The only good places in Europe left are Spain and the Nordic countries, Spain is a good place because of the climate and the mentality and the Nordic countries because of a low percentage of immigrants. Norway has the highest academical level in the world, thanks to a homogeneous European population

And yet, how many of the top corporations in the world are from Norway? Why does their technology not eclipse our's? Apparently an educated European population is insufficient for success.

America is almost half immigrant, and we dwarf Norway in every way that matters. Their educated European population does not appear to have allowed them to compete with us.

Speaking of education though, how many of the top Universities are in Norway...or even Europe for that matter? Lets find out:

http://www.webometrics.info/Distribution_by_Country.asp

The only Euronation that is even in the running with us is the UK...Norway had all of 3 in the top 200. Wow, thats impressive, heh heh

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Me:The quickest way to do that is to help us remove all our remaining enemies. And becoming more democratized. Lets start with the Middle East.

What enemies?

Iran. China. North Korea. Lets start with those.

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So far, two of the strongest political and economic allys of the USA is Saudia Arabia and Kuwait...

Uh....how did you determine they are the strongest. Certainly we are closer to Israel than either Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. As far as I know, we are not shipping any Joint Strike Fighters to them, but Israel will be getting a batch, along with many of our NATO allies.

They are tools, not allies. As soon as they have outlived their usefulness, we will turn on them. Ask Saddam.

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Me: Why is it ironic? Are they not American citizens?

web definitions of Irony:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&d...ition&ct=title

Your statement does not fit those definitions. Did you actually read it before you posted a link to it?

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again, subjective opinion, not fact. meanwhile in the USA with the Red Witch hunts and human rights abuses that denied civil rights to many American citizens until mid 60's when Lyndon B Johhson signed Civil Rights Act, USA was in the business of fascist opression.

You don't consider Soviet occupation to be human rights abuses? heh heh

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By the way...its was some 20 years after the Soviets defeated European Fascism, that USA finally got on board with free democracy.

Better late than never eh?

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false...there was no starvation...american nukes didnt amount to anything...

American nukes prevented the Soviets from doing to the world what they did to Eastern Europe.

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the soviet union outranked american nukes 3 to 1.

Numbers are irrelevant in that context, since we had more than enough to destroy them several times over. And they had no defense against them.

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the USA played a very minor role in the break up of the Soviet Union...

The threat of the US military forced the Soviets to invest heavily in their own military...to the point where it bankrupted them. Their economy could not support a large military...but our's could. We outspent them.

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again, that is mis skewed american propaganda

You keep saying that as if your own sources are not propaganda.

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The soviet bloc countries in Europe fell from within first....

Why did they fall from within if everyone was happy with Soviet occupation?

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Me: So the EU wanted us to invade Iraq?

The EU isnt a nation or a soveriegn governing body. they are applied economics, trade, labour union. The strongest in the world, I might add...hence, why asia and usa answer to the eu.

If we answer to the EU, and the EU didnt want us to invade Iraq, how is it we invaded them anyway?

Are you sure you are not listening to a little propaganda yourself?

Quote:

Some countries within the EU not only wanted to invade...but had the plans years prior....

Source? I don't recall any European nations supporting our invasion without prodding...they were reluctant at best.

Was it a majority of the EU?

bogus_truth · #87 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fascist Canuck

Afghanistan defeated the Soviets? *ROTFLMAO* When did this happen? They withdrew due to costs that could no longer be sustained by their failing economy. I would suggest you look at the date of their withdrawal, then at the date when the Soviet Union collapsed. It is a mere coincidence? Duh?

well documented and the USA's official record of events.
school's in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

http://www.afghan-web.com/history/articles/ussr.html

wow, i vaguely remember hearing those words spoken by Tom Brokaw, Ted Coppel, etc.

oh god, canadians....we allow them to exist for such entertainment.

biggest question...where have you been?

bogus_truth · #88 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

America also has a free press, which frequently criticizes the government.

And yet, how many of the top corporations in the world are from Norway? Why does their technology not eclipse our's? Apparently an educated European population is insufficient for success.

America is almost half immigrant, and we dwarf Norway in every way that matters. Their educated European population does not appear to have allowed them to compete with us.

Speaking of education though, how many of the top Universities are in Norway...or even Europe for that matter? Lets find out:

http://www.webometrics.info/Distribution_by_Country.asp

The only Euronation that is even in the running with us is the UK...Norway had all of 3 in the top 200. Wow, thats impressive, heh heh

Iran. China. North Korea. Lets start with those.

Uh....how did you determine they are the strongest. Certainly we are closer to Israel than either Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. As far as I know, we are not shipping any Joint Strike Fighters to them, but Israel will be getting a batch, along with many of our NATO allies.

They are tools, not allies. As soon as they have outlived their usefulness, we will turn on them. Ask Saddam.

Your statement does not fit those definitions. Did you actually read it before you posted a link to it?

You don't consider Soviet occupation to be human rights abuses? heh heh

Better late than never eh?

American nukes prevented the Soviets from doing to the world what they did to Eastern Europe.

Numbers are irrelevant in that context, since we had more than enough to destroy them several times over. And they had no defense against them.

The threat of the US military forced the Soviets to invest heavily in their own military...to the point where it bankrupted them. Their economy could not support a large military...but our's could. We outspent them.

You keep saying that as if your own sources are not propaganda.

Why did they fall from within if everyone was happy with Soviet occupation?

If we answer to the EU, and the EU didnt want us to invade Iraq, how is it we invaded them anyway?

Are you sure you are not listening to a little propaganda yourself?

Source? I don't recall any European nations supporting our invasion without prodding...they were reluctant at best.

Was it a majority of the EU?

1.) the UK isnt significant in Europe...Germany is...Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe...furthermore...many european countries rank ahead of the USA in education, quality of life, standard of living, health care, freedom, security, etc.

Norway is an oil country....be careful of what you talk about.

Technology? being that the world wide web, the computer, the first programmable computer, micro chip, silicon chip, DVD, CD, analog and digital data recording and storage, magnetic tape, radar, sonor, Television, LCD, mobiel telecommunications, portable phones, mobile phones, not to mention the new technology already in practice that wont be coming to the states until another few years WAS ALL INVENTED AND FURTHER PERFECTED BY Europeans in Europe...I dont think this is an area you can claim any superiority or contribution.

wow, how long did it take you to find that "webtronics" website...sorry, its not credible source of info.

how about what is published and accepted by all sources of instituions:

http://www.topuniversities.com/world.../results/2006/

as you will see the equal balance of asian, north american (not just usa) and european high standards in institutions of higher learning.

not to mention the fact the applications by foreign graduates to American Uni's has more than declined by 30% since 2000. Europe and Asia are the hot spots for science, business and liberal arts.

"Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

do you seriously want to talk about global corporations?

"Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.6

.

Btw, America's free press? ranks #33 in the world...equal with Greece....Western Europe outranks them in freedom.

here is another little stat to give you some more objectivity...not about Europe, but about Asia:

Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.

Sadistic-Savior · #89 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 08:28 AM

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oh god, canadians....we allow them to exist for such entertainment.

Heh..."allow".

yeah, and I allow the sun to continue buring. I allow the moon to rise every night.

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1.) the UK isnt significant in Europe...Germany is...Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe...

Which means they are small potatos to us.

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Norway is an oil country....be careful of what you talk about.

Where's your source? Whats their world ranking? How many big oil companies are based there?

How does education have any affect on natural resources? heh heh

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Technology? being that the world wide web, the computer, the first programmable computer, micro chip, silicon chip, DVD, CD, analog and digital data recording and storage, magnetic tape, radar, sonor, Television, LCD, mobiel telecommunications, portable phones, mobile phones, not to mention the new technology already in practice that wont be coming to the states until another few years WAS ALL INVENTED AND FURTHER PERFECTED BY Europeans in Europe...

Sources?

Nevermind...I can provide some:

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ENIAC, short for Electronic Numerical Integrator And Computer, was the first general-purpose electronic computer.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC -

[Developed by the University of Pennsylvania]

The first integrated circuits were manufactured independently by two scientists: Jack Kilby of Texas Instruments filed a patent for a "Solid Circuit" made of germanium on February 6, 1959. Kilby received several US patents. Robert Noyce of Fairchild Semiconductor was awarded a patent for a more complex "unitary circuit" made of Silicon on April 25, 1961.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integra...nd_generations -

[both Americans]

The commercial usage of hard disk drives began in 1956 with the shipment of an IBM 305 RAMAC system including IBM Model 350 disk storage.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...rd_disk_drives -

[IBM is an American company]

NCR's John L. Janning invented liquid crystal displays (LCD).

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_...#Brief_history -

[NCR is an American company]

U.S. Patent 887,357 for a wireless telephone was issued in 1902 to Nathan B. Stubblefield of Murray, Kentucky. He applied this to "cave radio" telephones and not directly to cellular telephony as the term is currently understood. Cells for mobile phone base stations were invented in 1947 by Bell Labs engineers at AT&T and further developed by Bell Labs during the 1960s.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone#History -

[AT&T and Bell Labs are both American companies]

Prior to the widespread inter-networking that led to the Internet, most communication networks were limited by their nature to only allow communications between the stations on the network, and the prevalent computer networking method was based on the central mainframe method. In the 1960s, computer researchers, J. C. R. Licklider and Robert W. Taylor pioneered calls for a joined-up global network to address interoperability problems.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet -

[In short, Americans invented electronic networking]

The ARPANET, developed by DARPA of the United States Department of Defense which is actually the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network of the US Department of Defense, was the world's first operational packet switching network, and the predecessor of the global Internet.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET -

[also]

The first TCP/IP-wide area network was made operational by January 1, 1983 when all hosts on the ARPANET were switched over from the older NCP protocols to TCP/IP. In 1985, the United States' National Science Foundation (NSF) commissioned the construction of a university 56 kilobit/second network backbone using computers called "fuzzballs" by their inventor, David L. Mills.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet#History -

[Americans invented the Internet]

So out of the items you mentioned, the only ones that were really legitimate were CDs/DVDs and the World Wide Web. You make these claims, some of which are inaccurate, some of which are flat wrong, with no sources, and you accuse *ME* of propaganda?

Now THATS irony, heh heh

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wow, how long did it take you to find that "webtronics" website...sorry, its not credible source of info.

Sources don't seem to be a very high priority with you anyway.

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how about what is published and accepted by all sources of instituions:

http://www.topuniversities.com/world.../results/2006/

as you will see the equal balance of asian, north american (not just usa) and european high standards in institutions of higher learning.

Lets take a look at your link:

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1 Harvard University (United States)
2 University of Cambridge (United Kingdom)
3 University of Oxford (United Kingdom)
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (United States)
4 Yale University (United States)
6 Stanford University (United States)
7 California Institute of Technology (United States)
8 University of California, Berkeley (United States)
9 Imperial College London (United Kingdom)
10 Princeton University (United States)

http://www.topuniversities.com/world.../results/2006/

So seven of the top 10 universities...in your own link (including the #1!)...are American. None are in Spain, or Norway, or Germany or Asia.

So much for education eh?

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not to mention the fact the applications by foreign graduates to American Uni's has more than declined by 30% since 2000. Europe and Asia are the hot spots for science, business and liberal arts.

Then why are the top universities American?

Although I fully believe that Europe leads us in "liberal arts" heh heh

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"Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

What the hell is "The European Dream"?

Here's an actual ranking:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/18/...2000_Rank.html

This one is for 2006. But the trends have been consistent for a while. 35 of the top 100 in that list are American. Including the top 4 on the list.

Where is Norway? Why, they are way down the list at #96 (only one entry in the top 100). Where is Spain? Doing better than Norway, at #19 (and they at least have 3 on the list). Norway's entry is an oil company....with ten other oil companies in front of it.

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do you seriously want to talk about global corporations?

Yes. Seriously. But I'd like to reference something we can all see.

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Btw, America's free press? ranks #33 in the world...equal with Greece....Western Europe outranks them in freedom.

According to who? I see you're having problems providing links again.

Consider yourself:

Skeptikos Examiner · #90 (**permalink**) 02-29-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogus_truth

Btw, America's free press? ranks #33 in the world...equal with Greece....Western Europe outranks them in freedom.

What a joke, without the freedom of speech, the freedom to speak out your mind, and the right to bear arms, the possibility to enforce your views if needed, all other freedoms exist only in theory! Germany I believe ranks right behind China when it comes to censorship!

Ihr Glück ist trug, und ihre freiheit schein,
: ich bin ein Preuße, will ein Preuße sein!