Thread: Greece Election

Hollande is possibly going to wake up to different problems than he was expecting tomorrow with the result of the Greek election. They are not happy with the austerity measures and the two centre parties, left and right have taken a big knocking as the radical parties get the vote.

Greece’s pro-austerity parties were punished by voters who are weary of the endless cutbacks that they blame for plunging the country into deep recession.

Updated official projections Sunday show conservative New Democracy head Antonis Samaras leading with 18.9 per cent and 108 seats in the 300-member parliament, far less than the 151 needed to form a government. Leftist Syriza head Alexis Tsipras was second with 16.8 per cent and 51 seats, while the former majority PASOK was projected third with 13.4 per cent and 41 seats, as voters registered their anger for the party that had negotiated the first austerity-for-bailout programs two years ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2424218/

a far right party which wants to set bombs on the border to stop illegal immigrants and expel those already there is also expected to get at least 5% so a place in parliament.

Even New Democracy has started talking about renegotiating the bailout.

There’s a real risk of a return to radicalism in Europe. Let’s face it if you give the sheep a choice between taking the medicine and bread and circuses then which do you think they’ll choose?

Originally Posted by TopCat

There’s a real risk of a return to radicalism in Europe. Let’s face it if you give the sheep a choice between taking the medicine and bread and circuses then which do you think they’ll choose?

Well to be frank I would not fancy a 30% reduction on my income either which I understand is the norm. It is deeply concerning. Golden Dawn, the far right party copied the Muslim Brotherhood and delivered parcels of food and clothes to the poor to get their votes. Here is the Guardian live results. Golden Dawn looks like it is going to get around 7% of the vote and have 21 seats!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...?newsfeed=true

whatever it looks very likely the Greek bailout is hitting a new low.

Originally Posted by TopCat

There’s a real risk of a return to radicalism in Europe. Let’s face it if you give the sheep a choice between taking the medicine and bread and circuses then which do you think they’ll choose?

To what radicalism? The ruin that are bringing us the conservative and false socialdemocrat parties cannot be anymore radical.

And for good luck in Greece SYRIZA that is a socialdemocrat party, a real socialdemocrat, and however his name is Coalition of the Radical Left, is for nothing radical, and however radicalism does not mean bad. Well to the point, SYRIZA is possible that in the next Greek elections will win, and that can be a light for Greece, that is ruined thanks to the socioliberals(PASOK) and the conservative party.

It looks like Greece is probably going to form a Government, not including Syriza, which will keep it in the zone for the time being. However, a new poll shows that Syriza would be the largest party if a new election was called now. It has risen in the Polls to 27.7% while, thankfully, New Dawn has gone down to 5.7%

Eurozone crisis live: Syriza makes gains in new polling amid calls for unity government | Business | guardian.co.uk

One survey showed that 38 percent of Greeks, the highest percentage in the EU, were troubled by the presence of people of other nationalities living in their country, particularly ethnic Albanians. (2000 Eurobarometer) There is a widely held perception that the muslim Albanians bring crime to Greece, and this is not without statistical basis. 24 percent of Greeks said they were bothered by the presence of people of another race. There are not uncommonly stickers on streets saying 'Out with the Foreigners'.

The Greeks hold some historical resentment against the USA. During the Greek civil war at the end of the secons world war, America supported right-wing resistance fighters to help keep communist resistance groups from gaining control of the country. The military dictatorship, which overthrew the democratic Greek government and ruled Greece from 1967 until democracy was fully restored in 1974, was backed by the United States, although it did not instigate the coup.

Greeks were generally sympathetic to the Serbs in the Kosovo war, and NATO's bombing (mostly led by Americans) in 1999 led to additional resentment against the USA. Demonstrations often take place in front of the American embassy in Greece, and these protesters often carry on their demonstrations to the Israeli embassy nearby. These demonstrators complain about the influential Jewish lobby in America. The protesters come from both the political left and far-right.

'Poilitical correctness' does not exist as a phenomena in Greece in the same way it does in the West. Statements that would commonly be considered 'racist' or 'anti-semetic' in the West can be made without damage to personal reputation or political career. One of the main newspapers, Stochos even had the title "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on its front page. Unlike in many other countries in the EU, the socialists in Greece generally do not subscribe to the notion that different nationalities of people are all the same, or that ethnic resentment is bad.

The real reason Chrysi Avghi is surprising as a political party is not their anti-foreigner and racialist sentiments, but rather why they even feel it necessary to exist when so many of the other political parties in Greece hold sentiments not unlike this. In other words, the "Golden Dawn" is not really that shocking in Greece, although it might be to most of the people that live in other Western European countries.

Multiculturalism and 'tolerance' are luxuries only the more prosperous nations can afford. There is not enough opportunity to go around for everyone in the poorer Eastern european nations.

If a conservative party is weakened substantially, there is a real possibility that the far right could rear its ugly head as voters cast a protest vote and Greece fell into the trap. Some of those voted for the ultra-nationalist Golden Dawn now regret it and the majority of those who voted for Golden Dawn were men aged 25-34, unemployed and without higher education and it was more of a reflex reaction, a passive choice and it wasn't a conscious decision, according to pollsters. The lack of firm leadership of the economically-troubled country contributed to the rise of fringe parties on both sides and disenfranchised voters showed how angry they are at their country's desperate economic plight by casting a protest vote.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

One survey showed that 38 percent of Greeks, the highest percentage in the EU, were troubled by the presence of people of other nationalities living in their country, particularly ethnic Albanians. (2000 Eurobarometer) There is a widely held perception that the muslim Albanians bring crime to Greece, and this is not without statistical basis. 24 percent of Greeks said they were bothered by the presence of people of another race. There are not uncommonly stickers on streets saying 'Out with the Foreigners'.

Who puts these stickers up, Golden Dawn perhaps?

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

The Greeks hold some historical resentment against the USA. During the Greek civil war at the end of the secons world war, America supported right-wing resistance fighters to help keep communist resistance groups from gaining control of the country. The military dictatorship, which overthrew the democratic Greek government and ruled Greece from 1967 until democracy was fully restored in 1974, was backed by the United States, although it did not instigate the coup.

I am aware of historic hatred to the States from spending several months there in the 70's. An American friend of mine got chased by a Greek with s scythe for saying she was Americana - saved by other Greeks. They certainly hated the US then, but I am not sure what that has to do with the present crises.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

Greeks were generally sympathetic to the Serbs in the Kosovo war, and NATO's bombing (mostly led by Americans) in 1999 led to additional resentment against the USA. Demonstrations often take place in front of the American embassy in Greece, and these protesters often carry on their demonstrations to the Israeli embassy nearby. These demonstrators complain about the influential Jewish lobby in America. The protesters come from both the political left and far-right.

what is the relevance of this to the current situation?

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

'Poilitical correctness' does not exist as a phenomena in Greece in the same way it does in the West.

and yet Syriza said it would try to set up a government with members from all the other Parties except 'Golden Dawn'. This is a Europe wide tradition of forming a "cordon sanitaire" around such extremist far right groups and Syriza can be seem to have been following in that tradition.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

Statements that would commonly be considered 'racist' or 'anti-semetic' in the West can be made without damage to personal reputation or political career. One of the main newspapers, Stochos even had the title "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" on its front page. Unlike in many other countries in the EU, the socialists in Greece generally do not subscribe to the notion that different nationalities of people are all the same, or that ethnic resentment is bad.

really but statements against Golden Dawn by journalists result in Death Threats.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

The real reason Chrysi Avghi is surprising as a political party is not their anti-foreigner and racialist sentiments, but rather why they even feel it necessary to exist when so many of the other political parties in Greece hold sentiments not unlike this. In other words, the "Golden Dawn" is not really that shocking in Greece, although it might be to most of the people that live in other Western European countries.

It is shocking to Greece. Nazism does not have a friendly home in the consciousness of Greeks.

Originally Posted by Anders Hoveland

Multiculturalism and 'tolerance' are luxuries only the more prosperous nations can afford. There is not enough opportunity to go around for everyone in the poorer Eastern european nations.

The situation which Greece has been put into is without question one which could allow for people to exploit such things but hopefully they will come up with a better answer. As we have seen a much stronger move to the far left coalition. Here's something I noticed about Greek men in the 70's. They would get explosively angry, frequently about politics and jump up and shout 'I kill him, I kill him' but they always waited to start really reaching out with the punches until people were holding them back on either side. I do not think Authoritarian hatred would sit well with them.

Of course it is always dangerous to have a wide proportion of young men without focus and something to turn their attention to and people are very angry. Thankfully there are plenty of other political ways for them to align to. It seems the balance is in whether they really want to stay in the Euro or not. Personally I would say get out of the Euro, stay in the EU, default and leave the rest to deal with the house of falling cards.

You cannot expect any nation to put up with what the Greeks are now. Three in four shops shut. A family orientated society giving up their babies because they have no way to look after them. People starving and no hope of any cure. The whole of Europe needs to sit up and pay attention.

Greece receives immigrants equal with 1% of our population every year for more than 10 years , 90% of the illegals enter Europe through Greece and because of Lisbon 2 treaty there is nowhere to go , we simply can not cope with their numbers .
The nazis increase their voting pool by activism they are out in the streets helping people , of course they are not the only ones since anarchists are on it as well but GD participates in the elections . Nazis also got votes from ND ( liberals going back where they belong ).

Greeks deeply hate USA , this is true but it does not extent to personal level and it is not in our culture to go after people with scythes ...i doubt there are any scythes around too .

There is no historical rivalry between Jews and Greeks , if you exclude the nazis very few are considering "zionism" existence true but Greeks are very pro-Palestinian , i had Arafat's photo in my room as a teenager ....

I don't know if you have read the complete program of SYRIZA , they are a socialist party and a very true one . Problem is that Greeks have been showered with propaganda for the last 10 years so it is very hard to say "either we remain in EU and pay or stop paying and get out" and expect to winning any vote . If you ask a random guy searching in the trash can for food "do you think that we should exit Eurozone?" 9/10 times the reply is " NO this will be a financial disaster". SYRIZA played it very well while KKE just repeated what they say since 1981 ( not that they care earning more votes ) .

The biggest problem right now is that people don't see the future getting any better , we had 4 new suicides after the elections and the week is not over , soon things will go to open revolt because people will have nothing to lose .

Originally Posted by mutmekep

it is not in our culture to go after people with scythes ...i doubt there are any scythes around too .

I never said it was. It was one isolated incident. However I would suggest you do not suggest I was lying because I was not. Even with him I would agree it was more a show. He knew the others would come and nothing would come of it. My friend though was a bit scared.