Thread: Turkey Waging "Art War" To Repatriate Antiquities:

Originally Posted by janpor

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I guess you need to read-up on Christian history -- especially in the scope of South Eastern Europe.

I hope you realize that Istanbul was once called Constantinopel, named after it's founder, Emperor Constantine -- who moved his court from Rome to Constantinopel.

Constantinopel, in Latin is called "Nova Roma" -- where the Church took "office".

The Curch, as you call it, isn't called the "Roman Catholic Church" by coincidence...

Indeed, multiple schims and other sorts of nasty bussiness followed.

Hence, "Christian Orthodoxy" -- is basically "real Christianity".

Indeed -- we now enter a world mostly unknown to Americans, I'm sure -- we learn this stuff in high school, Don.

The Greek language always had a high status -- indeed, even during Roman times, Greek was considered the "scientific language".

The Roman Empire, which only dissappeared in 1453, became completely "Greekified" -- and it battled with "Rome" to be the true centre of Christianity and have "universal jurisdiction over all Christians".

Indeed, what we all know as the "Eastern Orthodox Church" is, in fact -- in 2012 -- still called the "Orthodox Catholic Church" headed by the Patriarch.

(BTW -- Turkish nationalim gone bonkers yet again: the Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen, the Patriarch of the Roman Church is a German as you might know.)

Sorry, but the "Church" you are referring too (the Roman Church) -- has no claim whatsoever on the Hagia Sophia.

You seem to know nothing about Christian history, Don -- e.g. understanding of "Pentarchy" is crucial in all of this.

Thanx for explanation, some people need it.

How I don't want to see Islamic people doing lobbies and have political power, I also don't want to see in my country priest with political power and doing lobby.
On the other hand I respect that the cemetery and some close churches have to be open. The problem there cemetery don't accept to be own to Turkish Education system, they want to be free religional school and don't want to be controlled like other Universities here. Turkey doesn't allow a free religional school because of secular rules. It is not allowed for an free Islamic University too here so the situation is equal.

Pentarchy has to be Turkish citizen. It is the same in Greece General Imam of the community has to be Greek Citizen. The situation is worse there the Muslim Turkish community can't choose always whoever they want, people send by goverment sometimes.

I am not a side in the Pentarchy issue however the theseis of Turkey ''While Turkish Community is suffering in Nort tharace how Greece is asking to open a totally free priest school in Turkey and how i ll explain this to my citizens''

As a free person I don't agree but if I was politician (I never choose this) I can understand this reason even I am not agree.

Originally Posted by janpor

Turkey Battles to Repatriate Antiquities:



No, just no.

Thoughts?

turkey (like Mongolia) has o connection to those Antiquities. they belong to Europe

Originally Posted by litwin

turkey (like Mongolia) has o connection to those Antiquities. they belong to Europe

They are own to the wrold!

On the other hand untill when Europe started to hug ''Greece''?
When to save Greece it is sick man and when steal the Antiquites it is Europe?

England (British Museum), USA Museums, and other museums must give back the Antiquies to Greece and Turkey immediately. Otherwise stealeing can't be stopped.
I will not discuss about Turkey - Mongolia event, that you say always like to be Mongol is an ashame, that i don't think any nation is superior than another one.
On the other hand you are so far to topic to understand why Turks of Turkey are different from Mongolians that's why i even don't try to explain to you...

Originally Posted by haydar

They are own to the wrold!

On the other hand untill when Europe started to hug ''Greece''?
When to save Greece it is sick man and when steal the Antiquites it is Europe?

England (British Museum), USA Museums, and other museums must give back the Antiquies to Greece and Turkey immediately. Otherwise stealeing can't be stopped.
I will not discuss about Turkey - Mongolia event, that you say always like to be Mongol is an ashame, that i don't think any nation is superior than another one.
On the other hand you are so far to topic to understand why Turks of Turkey are different from Mongolians that's why i even don't try to explain to you...

to turkey? why? what kind of connection you have to those Antiquies ? i was in turkey and i know your opinion about Anatolian past , your guides explained me perfectly . and when you ask about reparation how can you avoid questions about the Pontic genocide?

Originally Posted by litwin

to turkey? why? what kind of connection you have to those Antiquies ? i was in turkey and i know your opinion about Anatolian past , your guides explained me perfectly . and when you ask about reparation how can you avoid questions about the Pontic genocide?

Turkey is paradase of cheap trawel so probably you was in an organisation of a cheap tour and so a fake guide. Anyway i don't know what guide said to you but Turkish people mostly respect to this ruins, and museums with antiques are full of Turkish people, these are own to wrold how a 1000 years old hand writing ''Kuran'' is valuable for a Christian, these are valuable for Turks too.

Let's come to topic;

I am sorry but an Estonian or a German can't say to me that a ''Hittite Antique'' is own to him not to Turkish / Anotolian. Also In Turkey many of the population has roots from Hittite, Pontic, Armenian, Greek.

''Pontic Genoside? There is no sense under this topic, open a new topic...''

Originally Posted by haydar

Turkey is paradase of cheap trawel so probably you was in an organisation of a cheap tour and so a fake guide. Anyway i don't know what guide said to you but Turkish people mostly respect to this ruins, and museums with antiques are full of Turkish people, these are own to wrold how a 1000 years old hand writing ''Kuran'' is valuable for a Christian, these are valuable for Turks too.

Let's come to topic;

I am sorry but an Estonian or a German can't say to me that a ''Hittite Antique'' is own to him not to Turkish / Anotolian. Also In Turkey many of the population has roots from Hittite, Pontic, Armenian, Greek.

''Pontic Genoside? There is no sense under this topic, open a new topic...''

we Muslim nomad tribal people ware(are) so strong and glorious, nation of the greatest warriors ... those weak gay Greeks had no chance only submission ....this is your national ideology. Pontic Genoside first you have killed legitimated owners of those Antiques and new you want their property ? "The Hittites were a Bronze Age Indo-European speaking people of Anatolia. " Germans are much closer to them then you

Originally Posted by litwin

we Muslim nomad tribal people ware(are) so strong and glorious, nation of the greatest warriors ... those weak gay Greeks had no chance only submission ....this is your national ideology. Pontic Genoside first you have killed legitimated owners of those Antiques and new you want their property ? "The Hittites were a Bronze Age Indo-European speaking people of Anatolia. " Germans are much closer to them then you

You asked me to stop off-topic in another thread because I mentioned Armenian irredentism yet you're first to derail this thread with your "Pontic Genocide" bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Please (*)(*)(*)(*) from thread with your stupid anti-Turkish propaganda. Maybe we should credit Hittite antiquity to Pakistanis or Afghans because they also speak Indo-European language. Or how about India? Language is the last thing you should think about when it comes to such manners. Turks are obviously genetically more Anatolian than Germans or Pakis. It's really difficult to prevent myself from personal attacks when I'm replying to you.

Originally Posted by haydar

Hagia Sophia is a museum, thanx to secular regime of Turkey It transformed from mosque to museum.

Thanks to Attaturk, not Turkey.
Turkey are also responsible for refusing vital work on many churches (a muslim thing - every muslim country does it) and also changing countless christian churches into Mosques.
What would you say if any mosque was changed to a church ?
Usual muslim hypocrisy and double standards

There is not any regime can stay without support of people.
Turkish secular regime is supported by majority, even nowadays Turkey becomes more conservative, still majority on the side of the secularism.
Turks never leaded with Sharia even in Ottoman era.

There is not any Church transformed in Turkish Republic. Some of them are closed, becuase Christian Population moved, some of them are destroyed by fa(*)(*)(*)(*)s and radicals.
However nobady can show a law or official order aganist Churches. On the other hand In Athens Church blocks to build a mosque to Athens. In Athens there are hundred of tousands Muslim living. Population of Greece is around 10 milion. There is not any mosque in Athens, Athens get used to have Turkish and muslim pouplation where was under rule of Ottomans around 400 years, what happened to mosques? They are flied to sky???

In Istanbul where around 15 milion people lives total Christian population is around 100.000 and there are hundreds of Churches, more than need. I don't argue with you for the reasons why Christians moved however a Christian in Istanbul can live easly only if he/she is good as financially, he/she can go to pray to most beautiful Churches in Istanbul whenever she wants, she can celebrate her pascalya, noel, she can put a noel tree to her balcony she can wear her cross as necklass.

Christians could have problem in gettos, this is related with education level and related with social status,
In ''Crete'' Greece there are many mosques transformed to Church, Their minarets are cutten and now working as Church. I don't have problem if there are enough mosques for muslims.

Originally Posted by Breath

You asked me to stop off-topic in another thread because I mentioned Armenian irredentism yet you're first to derail this thread with your "Pontic Genocide" bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Please (*)(*)(*)(*) from thread with your stupid anti-Turkish propaganda. Maybe we should credit Hittite antiquity to Pakistanis or Afghans because they also speak Indo-European language. Or how about India? Language is the last thing you should think about when it comes to such manners. Turks are obviously genetically more Anatolian than Germans or Pakis. It's really difficult to prevent myself from personal attacks when I'm replying to you.

your have no connection to those you killed and stole everything form people who lived there 1 000s years before you even left steps of Mongolia Antique no you want Greeks , Armenian Antiques which we saved form you nomadic rage. question dont you think that the Armenian Antiques from Armenian high lands should end up in Yerevan?