british national party - Page 19

Dial8 · #**181** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

2:217 Warfare is an awesome evil

I will quote that verse. And I think it is also worth quoting the verse before it. I am using the translation of Abdullah Yusuf Ali.

Quote:

Quran 2:216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Quote:

Quran 2:217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

It doesn't say that warfare is an "awesome evil" as you claim, as you have used that verse. (That is certainly the impression we would get from reading you.) It is merely talking about some Muslims who violated a pagan custom, not to fight in a certain month. I do believe you are guilty of taking material out of context.

Dial8 · #**182** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

4;90 If they leave you alone and offer to make peace with you, God does not allow you to harm them.

Let us look at the verse-

Quote:

Quran 4:88 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

Quote:

Quran 4:89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Quote:

Quran 4:90 Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

I believe this is about the desertion of Muslim "hypocrites". So the verse is talking about how Muslim deserter's should be treated. You should really have told us this when you quoted the verse. I do believe you are again guilty of taking material out of context. And with regard to the verse- so what?

Doctiloquus · #**183** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 11:50 AM

...I appologise, I did not know.

3:18-19
If they shall dispute with thee, then say: I have surrendered myself
to God, as have they who follow me. Say to those who have received the
Book, and to the common folk, Do ye surrender yourselves unto God? If
they become Muslims, then are they guided aright: but if they turn
away -- thy duty is only preaching; and God's eye is on His servants.

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors.

Doctiloquus · #**184** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dial8";p=&quot

I believe this is about the desertion of Muslim "hypocrites". So the verse is talking about how Muslim deserter's should be treated.

What makes you believe that? Like most verses from most holy books, it can be interpreted in more than one way. To me, that is talking of all non-believers.

Dial8 · #**185** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dial8";p=&quot

How violent is Islam? It is the only major world religion with a doctrine of holy war against the unbelievers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

No it isn't.

Well you can say that, but I really don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

Dial8 · #**186** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors.

Again, this is taken out of context. There is a progression in what Allah commands with regard to warfare.

Doctiloquus · #**187** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 12:04 PM

And I believe that you do not know what you are talking about.

Doctiloquus · #**188** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dial8";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors.

Again, this is taken out of context. There is a progression in what Allah commands with regard to warfare.

Yes there is. Do not kill innocent people that do no harm to you. Example:

4:89 ...slay enemies wherever you find them!

4:90 Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them.

The second line is crucial to the message of the text. Even in times of war, soldiers must observe the laws of compassion and reason as dictated by the Qu’ran.

And that line was not taken out of context.

Dial8 · #**189** (**permalink**) 02-15-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctiloquus";p=&quot

And I believe that you do not know what you are talking about.

But the fact is, I have proved that you don't know what you are talking about with regard to the hadith. I have proved that you don't know what you are talking about with regard to the Quran.

The impression I get from you- you don't have a clue, you just want to argue for whatever reason.

Doctiloquus · #**190** (**permalink**) 02-16-2006, 07:14 AM

...and your ignorance and hatred of Islam.

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