Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Politics by Region > Western Europe


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2004, 01:14 PM
JonBlankfield's Avatar
JonBlankfield JonBlankfield is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
JonBlankfield is on a distinguished road
Credits: 861
Default BNP

I would say that the shift in politics has been to the right and this made the PUBLIC perception of some issues seem to be lefty. Ok centre - right, that was what I was talking about I was just talking about right-wing for Labour.

Then if Blair is centre right and the BNP is right-wing that makes you extremists. Don't forget that extremism also depends on the cultural identity of any nationa at a given time. THerefore if the BNP is the most right-wing party in UK politics, then it is extremist.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2004, 01:17 PM
JonBlankfield's Avatar
JonBlankfield JonBlankfield is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
JonBlankfield is on a distinguished road
Credits: 861
Default Untrue

Quote:
Originally Posted by billycotton";p=&quot View Post
Oh and by the way the amount we pay in tax has increased since labour came to power,this is due entirly to indirect taxes.
Yes tax has increased as I've already stated, and it has increased in necessity but if you look at Tory Stealth Taxes they were much more varied and costly than the current ones. This is despite falling levels of public service and privatisation of BA, British Gas, British Telecom etc. All things which were publicly owned and cheap albeit with some problems, but these problems are only comparable with the ones we have suffered under privitisation.
Reply With Quote
  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2004, 01:49 PM
billycotton billycotton is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: sheffield
Posts: 67
billycotton is on a distinguished road
Credits: 433
Default bnp

Well we agree that tax has gone up under labour,and we are of course talking about the overall tax burden.
This is where we have a different point of view ,we beleive in low tax and still think we can improve public services.
This is the classic left v right point of view,you say if we are right of tony blair that makes us extreme,I do noy accept that analogy.
Like I said we are right wing but not FAR right,to me far right is national socialism or facist italian style,we are certainly not any of those.
You say in a previous post you are liberal democrat,well to me that is left of centre,do you agree?
Although I fundamentally disagree with the party of your choice I can admit that they are bye and large consistent in their approach to politics, which is more than can be said for the other two.
Reply With Quote
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2004, 10:36 PM
Essex-Boy Essex-Boy is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 109
Essex-Boy is on a distinguished road
Credits: 691
Default BNP and far right

Quote:
Originally Posted by billycotton";p=&quot View Post
Like I said we are right wing but not FAR right,to me far right is national socialism or facist italian style,we are certainly not any of those.
Wake up and smell the coffee Billy. On your website you say you believe in a breeding programme. You've been fobbed off with nonsense by people who are hungry for power.
Reply With Quote
  #85 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 12:07 AM
JonBlankfield's Avatar
JonBlankfield JonBlankfield is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
JonBlankfield is on a distinguished road
Credits: 861
Default Progressive Liberal

Quote:
Originally Posted by billycotton";p=&quot View Post
You say in a previous post you are liberal democrat,well to me that is left of centre,do you agree?
I agree that it is perceived that way at the moment but I think that is largely due to the SDP contingent within the party. I regard myself as a Progressive Liberal. I believe that the state should not dominate people's lives but that it has a duty to help and provide decent public services. I have no hangups about how anyone wants to lead their life and I have no hangups on the idea of civil liberties and human rights - something I would suggest that the BNP do. Without Privatisation - something I think most people will agree has been a shambles, you need a strong free market - something I believe in - and you need a reasonably high tax level.

You only have to look across Scandinavia at what 45% tax levels have done for them. They have brilliant public services and even on another front - Broadband Internet - they have far superior services - 24 Meg in places!
I have no problem with criticising my own party - for instance I don't particularly rate Charles Kennedy - but that means I will point out problems with others too and where the BNP views conflict with mine I will argue the point.

Finally you cannot have low tax and good public services, it simply doesn't and has been proved not to work. Privatisation doesn't work either. Things just get more expensive and service only improves minutely.
Reply With Quote
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 11:02 AM
billycotton billycotton is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: sheffield
Posts: 67
billycotton is on a distinguished road
Credits: 433
Default bnp

I found your point about taxwhat I expected,the only trouble with your policy is you wont get the chance to implement it.
No party which advocates higher taxes will ever gain power,the electorate simply wont accept it, now let us not forget that under the labour party of Jim Callaghan the top rate of tax was extortinate and it certainly did not see excellent public services.
All it acheived was to deter the wealth creators, you gave me the example of scandinavia as a high tax and first rate public services and you have a point .
But I myself woul'd prefer the U S model of low tax ,high growth, and excellent standard of living.
Reply With Quote
  #87 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 11:56 AM
JonBlankfield's Avatar
JonBlankfield JonBlankfield is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
JonBlankfield is on a distinguished road
Credits: 861
Default But

The problem with the US style is that the wealthy enjoy life whereas the poor are exploited and worse off than in this country' because we have the welfare state. You have a very blinkered view of American life. May I suggest you read Fast Food Nation for a little more guidance.

As regards high taxation Parties gaining power, the Lib Dems have a much better chance of getting elected than the BNP, especially when I become leader . Today in politics you need to be honest and I think that is one area where we win hands down. We try to offer something a little different to the usual two Tory parties that there are at the moment.

As regards Callaghan's public services, that is because the Labour Party thought just throwing money at the problem would fix it. It didn't, as it was never going to. What's needed in public services is money AND reform.
Reply With Quote
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 12:43 PM
billycotton billycotton is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: sheffield
Posts: 67
billycotton is on a distinguished road
Credits: 433
Default bnp

O k Jon, let me respond,Iam in agreement that the U S is divided but then again so is this country,if you have the money you get bupa health care otherwise it is the nhs.
And don't forget their is a medi care system in the U S so they have a basic health care system which although not comparable with our nhs nevertheless does give medical cover up to a point.
Don't get me wrong I am in favour of the state looking after those who can't look after themselves,after all this is what a civilised country shoul'd do.
As for the lib dems like I said in a earlier post you are at least consistent,which is unlike the other two main parties,as for you will acheive power before we in the BNP do,this remains to be seen.
Let me point you in the direction of POLL in the mail recently which gave us a 16% SHARE OF THE VOTE,not bad for a party which is fairly new on the scene and which unlike the main three does not get agood press,just imagine what we might get if we were not under attack all the time by the media.
I beleive we have the potential to gate crash the main three,and given a fair crack of the whip the chance to make a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 12:53 PM
Essex-Boy Essex-Boy is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Essex
Posts: 109
Essex-Boy is on a distinguished road
Credits: 691
Default BNP in power

Quote:
Originally Posted by billycotton";p=&quot View Post
I beleive we have the potential to gate crash the main three,and given a fair crack of the whip the chance to make a difference.
Crack of the whip being the operative words.
Reply With Quote
  #90 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2004, 12:54 PM
JonBlankfield's Avatar
JonBlankfield JonBlankfield is offline
Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 109
JonBlankfield is on a distinguished road
Credits: 861
Default Hm

Quote:
Originally Posted by billycotton";p=&quot View Post
Let me point you in the direction of POLL in the mail recently which gave us a 16% SHARE OF THE VOTE,not bad for a party which is fairly new on the scene and which unlike the main three does not get agood press,just imagine what we might get if we were not under attack all the time by the media.
I beleive we have the potential to gate crash the main three,and given a fair crack of the whip the chance to make a difference.
Mate, I'm afraid you're living in a dreamworld there. Firstly the Mail is a very right wing paper, secondly we're in a mid-term therefore people when asked go out of their way to kick the Government - it happens every single time. Thirdly, polls are notoriously unreliable for numerous reasons. There is no way that the BNP will realistically gain 16% of the vote unless something drastic happens.

Like you've said the medicare system is pathetic. It is in both out parties interests to gain electoral reforms as regards voting. As I've said earlier though if either of the two parties get in first it will be us. People are more willing to turn to the more moderate party before the radical ones in General Elections - this country has always been a centralist state to all ends.

I think you have a chance to become the fourth party within the system and if you do become the third it will be at the expense of the Tory Party, which by the way is dying out anyway - 70% of it's members are over 60.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden