Is a man deliberately noticing a woman's appearance, while understanding that other qualities are more important, a sexist practice? I'm a man who is tormented by the thought that deliberately noticing a woman's beauty may well be chauvinistic. Please vote in this poll only if you are a woman so that I can understand whether my fears are correct.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

You might have noticed that some women make a great effort to be noticed. BUT, there is a big difference between noticing and staring. Your best question may be how many seconds can you look at a woman before it's considered staring? Probably about 10 seconds max unless you are actually trying to get her attention. I have two beautiful daughters and there's a fine line between being complimented and getting the heebiejeebies. And remember, it's almost always OK to tell a woman she is pretty (or has pretty eyes etc...).

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Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.

Since I don't get out much, I was thinking more along the lines of G-rated photographs of famous women. I'm a pig even for thinking of the matter.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

If women do the same thing around men, then is it really sexist for men to do such?

Possibly. But that would simply mean that it is sexist for both men and women to be that way.
I don't think of it as sexist at all. Sexism involves placing women on a lower level, not noticing their differences.

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"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

Exactly.

And... we can't help it because our ancestors have been using such as a means or reproduction. So.. it's in our genes, we can't help but be the way that we are. Otherwise, make yourself into a cyborg or something.

Judging from the lengths some woman go to be noticed, I'd say the majority of them wouldn't find this sexist.

I'm assuming that by saying "deliberately," you mean you want the woman to notice you noticing her. If you remove the phrase "while understanding that other qualities are more important," I would say it is sexism, since you are then judging the woman based on one aspect of her character (the least important) and ignoring the rest. However, it would certainly be sexism at it mildest form, so much so that most woman would probably welcome it as well as have a hard time understanding why it is sexist (In fact, I had to give it a lot of thought before I could answer).

Of course, the same would also apply to a woman deliberately noticing a woman.

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WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

"You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

That depends. What if the man who notices only the superficial characteristics of the woman also values only those characteristics in himself. As such, he would just be shallow, not sexist.
Of course this doesn't apply to Force. It applies more to some metrosexual male models. But it was an important distinction to make (well, maybe "important" is stretching it a little).

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"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

Your reply got me thinking more about this scenario, and now I wonder. Perhaps deliberately noticing a woman's appearance, while understanding that other qualities are more important, may be even more sexist than not understanding that other qualities are more important. Think about it. You know other qualities are more important than appearance, yet you still deliberately notice a woman's appearance without taking into account her other qualities. IOW, you're deliberately ignoring her other qualities and focusing only on her appearance even though you know that is the least important. What do you think? Does this make sense?

Again, I wouldn't condemn a man who does such a thing as a chauvanist, but perhaps it really is a very mild form of sexism, one that few woman would be insulted by and many would be glad to receive.

If it is sexism, than it also begs the question, is sexism always bad? Are there times when sexism may actually have a positive affect on woman? Certainly, a woman who notices that a man is noticing her appearance would feel confident that she is physically attractive, which would in turn make her feel better about herself. I'll have to ask some of my lady friends about this, but I can already imagine the replies.

Interesting thread after all, Force...

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WARNING: In the unlikely event of an accidental agreement with any or all points made in the above post, contact a clinical psychologist immediately.

The views expressed in the above post are not necessarily those of Joker and/or any of his affiliates.

"You have found the secret message. Do you have too much time on your hands? ...Let it go."

Well, to be honest, I am more attracted by personality traits that some would call charm than by beauty per se. At any rate, it is all probably despicable, which is part of why, for the last few months, I have become more reclusive, avoided all images of women, and stared at the ground on the rare occasions I have gone outside (mainly to medical appointments), not only to avoid God's wrath (which I discuss in the religion forum) but also to avoid thinking anything that some women would disapprove of regarding their charm or appearance. It is such a strain on me to live this way (also monitoring my thoughts constantly) that I seriously think about somehow being castrated. It would be better than suicide, at any rate, and it would lessen my male tendencies.

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)