Basically, forcing the father of an unintended pregnancy to pay compensation for the child violates his rights, much in the same way forcing a mother to bring the pregnancy to term violates hers. Even as the mother chooses to raise the baby, the father is then forced to dole out money from his paycheck 12 months a year until the child is 18. Thus, 216 months of payment.

If the mother can have an abortion, the father should be able to opt out of child support.
Conversely, if you're anti-abortion, if the mother cannot have an abortion or an adoption and must raise the child, then a father cannot opt out of child support.

Frankly I don't think women have a right toward abortion or that men have the right to opt out of child support. But the argument made for abortion rights is that it is the woman's body that is forced to undergo the stress of childbirth and without some intervention, the child by default ends up the woman's problem and the man can run away.
I have exactly ZERO sympathy for men who like to cry about child support. There are cases where I think the courts are unfair or demand ridiculous amounts, but in principle... the man needs to be held accountable.
From a macro-level concern, the other issue is that if a man is not held accountable, he can go off and impregnate many, many women and shirk the responsibility. The woman, even if she goes for abortion, has to take some action and go through some crap. The man, without child support laws, can run rampant and pay NO PRICE... a total free-rider.
The only problem I see is when these no-responsibility over-procreators get so many child support cases that the state can do no more to them- they might as well go impregnate some more. I think they should be sterilized automatically after two such attempts... but that would be doing them a favor on the taxpayers... so they should have to pay for that service themselves or face jailtime.
I also would really like to know why it is that every guy I know who whines about child support can seem to afford all kinds of home entertainment equipment and stuff for himself. Boggles the mind.

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"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

The whole point of this argument is that women are granted more choices of the child than men are. This comes in the form of adoption, abortion, and custody. To say that the man HAS to pay child support I think is ridiculous, if a man wants an abortion or adoption. The woman has the right to say she doesn't want to pay for/raise this child why doesn't the man have the same rights? I think a contract needs to be implemented that a man can sign to give up his parental rights.

A man has no say in whether the woman has an abortion or not if he wants to keep the child or doesn't believe abortion is right, the woman can still kill her baby, this needs to work both way. IMO....women have been granted more rights than men since the women's movement.

You're overlooking that women in 100% of cases are the ones who must give birth.
I'm personally for the outlaw of abortion except in severe health-related cases... which leaves the woman to give birth and the man to either be a free-rider or pay up.
I think that in 100% of cases the man should pay for a good chunk of pregnancy expenses because he should not get off easy.

Men have the ability to spread seed faster than women do, have an easier time escaping detection as a father, and never have to suffer any pain in birth. Therefore it makes sense that the law should come down toughest on them as a deterrent to irresponsible action.
The reason a woman has the right if abortions are allowed is that she is the only one whose body is affected. Once we gather the technology to transfer the pregnancy to the man, there will be a case for the man having say.

At the very least, his say is not as strong because he does not pay equal price.

Sorry, men do not have the right to be irresponsible just because they are able to avoid all the actual health consequences of pregnancy. They too should be deterred from stupidity.
Don't like it?
Keep it in your pants.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

You are against abortion but the way the law stand women can get off easy now, men can't.


This means that the women are being more irresponsible because they face graver consequences for having sex. They should be more inclined to pick men who have the same views as them on this issue and to not sleep with deadbeats.


50% of the baby is part of the man's body.

I agree and because of this like I said before the woman should make better decisions who they mate with. Just because one person is effected greater doesn't mean they are entitled to more rights.

You are against abortion so what do suggest in a case where the man wants to keep the baby but has no rights over the baby the woman can have an abortion whether he likes it or not.

Like the saying goes it takes two to tango, the woman shouldn't have sex either if she doesn't know how the man feels about having a child.

__________________
Most people think Great God will come from the skies But if you know what life is worth You will look for yours on earth And now you see the light You stand up for your rights

It's true that it takes two to tango... but the main reason for forcing men to pay, I think, is to create a stronger deterrent.
In most cases both people are equally to blame. There are more rape and semi-rape (too drunk or drugged to really know what's going on) cases where the man is fully responsible. There are also cases where women attempt to get pregnant to snag a man (which never end in abortion). Both parties are accountable in all but the rape and semi-rape areas.
I think it's pretty rare that a woman wants an abortion and the man does not. If it was a one-night stand, the man is usually nowhere to be found. If the two are married or steady, it falls on both of them. If they have conflicting morals they are both fools... and in those cases, as long as abortion is legal, I'd think it's the woman's choice as she is the one whose body is affected by the pregnancy- there is no fair way to figure such a situation as neither was involved in discussion before the pregnancy.

The one point where I think the courts are actually unfair to men is in determining custody. And in reality, the courts' stance is that the child should have a relationship with both parents- but people have a way of being unreasonable... and the result is that the courts are forced to pick a side and the woman is almost always the side.

Another problem I have is that child support can only go so far. Once a man has had so many kids that the courts can no longer take his income... there is no deterrent to further births. The man can go and impregnate any number of women with no further consequence... at the expense of the kids.

It would be much better if people simply learned to be responsible or at least to talk things over or to only have sex with people they actually cared about... but since that doesn't happen, it puts the law in a tough spot. It must do what is best for the kids, while also working with deterrence... and somehow do it in the most equitable way possible.

But I think as long as abortion continues on, it will be harder to determine what the most equitable actions are to take.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

You keep saying my exact point the woman incures more responsibility when having sex than a man so becuase the woman has more severe consequences for her actions when she has sex she should be more careful. If the man has less responsibility than he doesn't have to be as careful.

As an example a millionare and a bum have $10 they both invest in the stock market on a tip from the millionare knowing they can make or lose money. Losing the $10 for the bum is going be a lot more castarophic than losing $10 for the bum. The bum has taken an action that effects him greatly while the millionare has taken an action that effects him very little. Should the bum expect the millionare to give him money?

Its the same thing they are both committing an act and they both do (or at least should) know the consequences of their actions. The woman should know she can get pregnanent and have to take care of a kid. The man might get an STD but besides that is not going to have a kid. By taking the action of sleeping with the guy the woman incurs great risk that she should be held responsible for. On the other hand the man takes on almost no risk in sleeping with the girl so should not be held accountable.

__________________
Most people think Great God will come from the skies But if you know what life is worth You will look for yours on earth And now you see the light You stand up for your rights

It depends on whether it is in the interest of the government to deter the behavior. Investing in the stock market is something we should encourage rather than discourage, so at the very least... we do not punish anyone for a bad investment beyond what the market does itself.

But in the case of out-of-wedlock births, if no price is paid by the man, he will continue to go around having kids out-of-wedlock. It is a good idea to make him pay for that. By deterring him, we further decrease the chances.

The man should always have to pay part of the price for a child he helped produce. Otherwise he gets away with doing something irresponsible with no consequences. The woman pays the consequences for both of them... And the child also pays.
To suggest otherwise is like saying that the guy who buys drugs should go to jail... but the one who sells them should get off and run with the money.

The abortion thing makes everything much more complicated... and I have to admit, there is no equitable solution to that mess.

__________________
"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

It's as simple as this: A child is made by an egg and sperm. Therefore, except in cases of rape and statutory rape, the man and the woman each have 50% of the responsibility for the child. By having voluntary (sorry, but such biology is graphic) intercourse, one takes 50% of the obligation, financial and otherwise, for any children who are conceived. Failure to pay child support, therefore, is neglect of the child and theft from the mother. I oppose abortion, in turn, because it is the moral equivalent of murder.

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"Some people complain about the system. The system is not good, so they can't do anything. It's an excuse. Freedom is in your heart." (Jin Xing)

And my point is the woman DOESN'T HAVE to take 50% of the obligation, she can have an abortion, the man can't. Also, the man can't hardly ever get custody so he has to pay for a kid that he can't hardly ever see.

__________________
Most people think Great God will come from the skies But if you know what life is worth You will look for yours on earth And now you see the light You stand up for your rights