I tend to think that the abortion topic should go under Women's rights.

Personally, I am pro-choice. I am a woman, and I do not want kids yet. I am 20, and I plan to do some things with my life. If I became pregnant however, I do not know if I could morally allow myself to have an abortion. I believe that every woman should have the right to chose for herself, without the government telling her what she can and cannot do with her life and body. If abortion is banned, it will become a "back alley" procedure once again, which is a higher danger than anything else.

I think that it's time for the goverment (read: white males/Bush Admin) to separate religion from government and get over the fact that people in the world are going to do things that you may not agree with. If I eat meat and you're a vegetarian, are you going to try to outlaw meat? No, because that's absurd. Likewise with abortions. You may decide to take the moral higher ground and stand against abortion, but do that knowing that a whopping 50% of pregnancies are unwanted.

I think a lot of people agree with you, and feel the same way. I am a 21 year old man, but i think a woman should have the choice of wanting a baby or not, and it should be left up to the woman. Now morally, if i knocked-up a girl, i know i would not be for an abortion at all, but it would be her choice. However, i do think that there are a lot of women who are pro-life.

I, too, am pro-choice and believe that a woman should be allowed to abort the fetus at any time during its development. It really is more of a "when is a person a person?" argument because they have to decide when aborting is like murdering a child.

__________________
The one serious conviction that a man should have is that nothing
is to be taken too seriously."
-Nicholas Butler (1862 - 1947).

Exactly Hosef. If you glance over at the Abortion sections, you'll see the legality of abortion has turned into is it murder or not. It really is a women's choice, its their baby, they support it, they can choose.

Btw: Nice ghoul pic... Waiting WoW are we?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/03/1...er.charged.ap/


Caesarean refusal leads to murder charge
Friday, March 12, 2004 Posted: 12:13 PM EST (1713 GMT)

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (AP) -- A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a Caesarean section to save her twins was charged Thursday with murder after one of the babies was stillborn.

Prosecutors said Melissa Ann Rowland, 28, didn't want the scars that accompany the surgery.

An autopsy found the baby died two days before its January 13 delivery and that it would have survived if Rowland had had a C-section when her doctors urged her to, between Christmas and January 9. The other baby is alive, but authorities had no further information.

The doctors had warned that without a C-section, the twins would probably die, authorities said. A nurse told police Rowland said a Caesarean would "ruin her life" and she would rather "lose one of the babies than be cut like that."

"We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations" for the mother's decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.

Court documents give no address for Rowland, and she isn't listed in area telephone books. An attorney was to be appointed for her Friday, Morgan said.

The charges carry five years to life in prison. Rowland was jailed on $250,000 bail.

According to the documents, Rowland went to LDS Hospital in Salt Lake City in December to seek advice after she hadn't felt her babies move. A nurse, Regina Davis, told police she instructed Rowland to go immediately to one of two other hospitals, but that Rowland said she would rather have both babies die before going to either place.

On January 2, a doctor at LDS Hospital examined Rowland and recommended an immediate C-section based on an ultrasound and the babies' slowing heart rates. Rowland left, the doctor told police.

The same day, Rowland allegedly saw a nurse at another hospital, saying she had left LDS Hospital because the doctor wanted to cut her "from breast bone to pubic bone."

A week later, Rowland allegedly went to a third hospital to verify whether her babies were alive. A nurse there told police she could not detect a heartbeat from one twin and advised Rowland to remain in the hospital, but Rowland allegedly ignored the advice.

In January, the state Supreme Court ruled that unborn children at all stages of development are covered under the state's criminal homicide statute. The law exempts the death of a fetus during an abortion.

The law has been used to prosecute women who kill or seriously harm their babies through drug use; it has never been used because a woman failed to follow her doctor's advice, said Marguerite Driessen, a law professor at Brigham Young University.

"It's very troubling to have somebody come in and say we're going to charge this mother for murder because we don't like the choices she made," Driessen said.

This was probably posted in the abortion section, but it just goes to show you how some of women's rights are decreasing. If you have see a picture of this woman now, you will understand that the "comsetics" reason for not having a C-section was merely an excuse to hide perhaps fear for doing it, or just mental instability. Either way, if they charge her with murder for not taking a doctor's advice to get a C-section, then a great deal of freedom will be lost. Many will be too afraid to do anything but what the doctor "advises" them to do, frightened that if they do not they will get charged with a lawsuit. Really, it is a fight for Mother's Rights, if I find an update on this case I will post it here

OT:Oh you know I am waiting, Undead Warlock, all the way! I will probably rave later in the OT forum about it

__________________
The one serious conviction that a man should have is that nothing
is to be taken too seriously."
-Nicholas Butler (1862 - 1947).

I am pro-choice all the way. If a child would wreck a life of a women or in her mind would wreck it, I see no favor being done to a child that would most likely spend his/her life being resented by that very same parent. It could also help those that are impregnated by a rapist or in some moment of idiocy. I don't like abortion and I'm not saying it shouldn't exist but when we live in a culture where people spend millions and millions on potentially harmful operations to suit their own vanities every year I see no reason to allow one that could very well save many a life of pain and sorrow. to those that would have me believe that every life is sacred and could potentially change the very world we live in, I point to all the civilians that have died in the war of your choice. Or to all those that have ever died of anything because they didn't have insurance. I think that people enjoy the liberty of discretion more often then they observe the liberty of choice. We most likely will never agree on anything in this world and until then let us agree to disagree and allow those that have made such decisions live with their own resolve. Most likely it is harder to fathom the very act if it involves you then if it is just some subject on the coffee table.

I believe that abortion should be a right to all women. Besides we already have too many people in the world today.

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Regardless of what any of us feel, anyone that thinks we will ever return to a situation where our wives and daughters would be forced to seek illegal abortions from untrained back alley butchers is delusional. The practical realities would be a mess for everyone, regardless of political stripe.

If it did happen, the result would be to precisely focus and unleash all of the political and economic power than women have gained during the intervening decades on a single political issue and those that oppose them. The fallout would transform the political landscape, and the result would be very gloomy for the cultural conservatives. Most people pretty much ignore this issue, as the people it matters most to weren't even born when Roe v Wade was decided. That would change in short order.

Outrage over abortion is an effective rallying cry for the social right, but their worst political nightmare would be for abortion to be made illegal, and mainstream politicians be forced to choose between a future in public office or support for a socially conservative minority. Most people just ignore the right wing noise machine, but that would also change, and advertisers would be forced to make some hard choices regarding radio and television sponsorship. In a cultural war, amoral business interests will not want to be on the losing side, and sheer numbers would dictate the result.

Even for the right wing hypocrites this would be a nasty situation. It's one thing to express verbal outrage over abortion, it's quite another thing to have your college freshman daughter have to choose between giving birth to the offspring of some useless no load, be forced to risk her life getting it terminated illegally, or head off to Toronto alone. Anyone that thinks that all the women who seek abortions come from politically liberal or centrist households has never been to a university clinic. It's actually the most sexually repressed, and those unfamiliar with using birth control, that have the most frequent unwanted pregnancies. In rural areas it is particularly prevalent among high school kids, and in small towns these girls are under a magnifying glass.

oc

I'm pretty free in freedom of choice. I don't think that we should be dictated about what to do with our bodies etc.
But somehow I find that abortion ahould not be allowed. Perhaps its because i believe that life is precious...and i belive that growth, no matter how small is life, that that life is not the mothers, even though it may be in her body, but it is in its own right alive, but dependant upon the care of another.
I just cant bring myself to the judgment of life. Its so precious that it cant be eliminated by inadequacy, coz lets face it, thats the only reason for why people have an abortion.

__________________
"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the
same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present."
- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

I am pro-choice but not pro-abortion as the right-wing likes to portray it....

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The last time this country mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake.