http://www.alfredlilienthal.com/greaterisrael.htm
http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_...nist_plan.html

Here are few sites to show the truth behind the war in the middle east.

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http://illinoisns.blogspot.com/

I'm going to take a few quotes from the 1st article only to show how artard it really is, not to mention anyone bothering to post it without taking a second to think if it makes sense. But before I do that ...

You keep saying that Iraq is a war that the US is fighting for Israel. Yet you refuse to answer a basic question. Why would Israel take out a moderate Muslem leader (Hussein), ruling over a Shiite majority country, who was a buffer between ourselves and Iran ?! You never never answer this. Instead you insist on posting the same crap. At that point it's called propaganda. Now to the quotes ...

"His Majesty then said: Frankly what I said is what I urge and preach. It is the only answer to what has been published by the responsible persons of Israel about the necessity that Israel should expand to comprise the beds of the Tigris and Euphrates, the Sinai Peninsula and the northern part of Saudi Arabia, including Medina,"

Didn't Israel give back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in return for peace ?!!! So we owned and controlled it and then gave it back. In 67 Israel had tanks on the roads to Cairo and Damascus unopposed, but turned around and came home !! Yet you see no problem with this ?

"They are making no secret of this scheme, and they have made its study part of the school curriculum in Israel, where they cram the students’ heads with these fanciful schemes."

Funny. I went to school here in Israel and nobody filled my head with any such ideas.

"in the late 1940s and early 1950s, made fierce statements about the need for "driving the Jews back into the sea."

At least we agree on the Arab goal. That's a start.

"Do Americans realize that many Arab-Muslims believe they are defending their own lands and existence -- and not just that of the Palestinian Arabs?"

Maybe because this is the propaganda that's being rammed down their throats ?!!

"defend themselves against American and Israeli plans to conquer the entire Middle East and subdue all Muslims?"

There are 150 or so million Arabs .. mostly Muslem. Add to that Persians and it's just over 220 million. There are 1.2 billion Muslems in the world. We are trying to subdue "all Muslems" ?!! Come again !!

I am actually going to stop right here cuz the article certainly doesn't get any better. Bottom line. People put out anti-Israel articles, and regardless of wheather they make sense or not, you eat it up ... cuz you want to. You don't answer the most basic questions even. So why would I think of you as anything but a propagandist ?!

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

Alpha at war without end appears to be ahead of you.

http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=33763

He gives a selection of sites so I'll give the link to him.

An entire 2 pages of links to "Zionist did it" articles. And where is it from ? The UK. And where are you from ? The UK. Are you Muslem Ashley ? If yes, then this makes a ot of sense. If not ... you will be. You are living in a dead country who's being eaten up demographically by a community not at all interested in assimilating with basic Western values, much less your culture. How does Londonstan sound ? Let me guess ... the Zionist are making the British Muslem population look bad

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

Janglo you appear to have got the wrong end of the stick. Where have I put that I agree with any of the statements or views of the suggested site.

I just want someone to bring them out in the open where the Mickey can be taken. Or aren't you up for it? The more chalatans and buffoons are put under a spot light and shown up for their views the better life will get for the majority.

No I am not Muslim, I am atheist.

Janglo you wrote:-

Please try to define "British culture" that you seem to think is disappearing? Britain is more vibrant than a plastic big Mac. Britain has better growth figures than the US.

As for your statement about being a Muslim would make sense, are you under the impression that only Muslims could be pro-Palestinians. You must be aware that the majority of the UN is not Muslim but that the UN regularly tables motions condemning Israel. Or do you believe that a great Islamo fascist conspiracy is out to get you rather than seeing the pro-Palestinians as a moral stance taken by rational people.

In which case I should point you in the direction of B'Tselem

http://www.btselem.org/English/

That is not a crypto Islamo Fascist site but rather a site run on compassion not hate.

Whoever suggested that current Western values are the best that can be attained? You must be stuck in a time warp if you think that this is as good as it gets. There is much I would like to change in the world I'm just starting here and going forwards one step at a time. Try reading what I post and not what your personal preformed prejudices think I post.

Extremism from all sources is making the world a bad place. Militant Christianity is as bad as militant Wahhabism is as bad as militant Zionism, militancy and religion make for a bad mix. It is not the religions that I have a problem with it is the militancy.

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

Quite right. Stand corrected. Sorry

Agreed. The difference between us I suppose is that I believe that Islam, being written by an extremely violent man, has a lot higher propensity to create militants that other religions. Islam is going to have a very very hard time going through it's reformation.

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

Janglo you wrote:-

Don’t tell Abu that Mohamed wrote his own book. Abu claims that he was illiterate.

From Lawrence of Arabia to other British spies/operatives in the Middle East we kick started Nationalism where there was only proto nationalism which has fed into a religious brotherhood the umma to produce a lot of undesirable traits.

Iran is a good example where the intentions of the west have not been fulfilled but rather the opposite has been the effect of a bullish policy.

1921, Reza Khan
from August 25 to September 17, 1941 During World War II, Britain and the USSR invaded Iran, to stop an Axis-supported coup and secure Iran's petroleum infrastructure.
16 September 1941 Allies force abdication of Reza Khan in favour of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi his son
The Shah of Iran was the first and only one of two Muslim leaders (other being Turkey) to recognize the State of Israel. The relations would deteriorate after the creation of the Islamic Republic.
1951, the Iranian parliament, under the leadership of the nationalist movement of Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh, voted unanimously to nationalize the oil industry. This shut out the immensely profitable Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), which was a pillar of Britain's economy and political clout. A month after that vote, Mossadegh was named Prime Minister of Iran.
1953 the CIA and British intelligence funded and led a coup d'etat to overthrow the democratically elected prime minister with the help of military forces loyal to the Shah through Operation Ajax
1957 SAVAK (National Organization for Information and Security, which was organized with the help of the CIA.).This infamous agency operated its own secret prison, used torture extensively, assassinated dissidents, and kept the CIA informed.
January 21, 1965. Prime Minister Hassan Ali Mansur's assassinated, Nassiri (SAVAK) brutally cracked down on various elements of Iranian society and was one of the most hated figures by the eve of the Iranian Revolution.
1975, The Shah of Iran abolished the multi-party system of government so that he could rule through a one-party state under the Rastakhiz (Resurrection) Party
09 Jan 1978 - Anti-Shah riots leave 60 dead (Iran)
10 Dec 1978 - Protests call for end to Shah and military rule
16 Jan 1979 - Shah Pahlavi flees Iran
(1979 - US State Dept includes Iraq in list of states sponsoring terrorism)
04 Nov 1979 – Iranian students/Militants storm the US embassy (termed “Den of spies”) in Tehran; 60 hostages taken
25 Apr 1980 - Operation Eagle Claw. Hostage rescue mission by US fails.
22 Sep 1980 - War breaks out between Iran and Iraq when Iraq invades Iran at Khuzestan,
21 Jan 1981 - Tehran releases US hostages
20 Dec 1983 - Donald Rumsfeld shakes hands with Saddam Hussein, sealing the mutual military interests and support.
24 March 1984; the UN released a report that Iraq had used mustard gas and tabun nerve agent against Iranian troops.

I agree that Islam could do with a reformation movement but it is not our place to organise a reformation or democracy for any other than ourselves.

http://www.we-change.org/spip.php?article337

http://www.we-change.org/spip.php?article282

http://www.we-change.org/spip.php?article19

These sites are from the Iranian women’s movement, they are trying to reform Islam or more particularly Iran.

President, His Excellency Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Presidency, Palestine Avenue, Azerbaijan Intersection, Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran, Fax: + 98.21.649.5880, E-mail: khatami@president.ir

Send him a email or send a fax to tell him what you think of his form of repression does for you.

I will not weigh in on this one since it's rather silly. If he was illiterate, he certaily wouldn't have been the only one. Wonder what literacy rate is in many of the countries in that region now. Besides, what do you need to be literate for when you have followers and all the money you can handle.

That's wonderful. But Islam can also not expect others to sit idely by while it goes through it's growing pains. In fact, precious little insentive to stop it's growing pains unless the world speaks up.

When a female author wins a Nobel prize for literature for writting about her death defying secret classes with girls to teach then Western lit, your country might be in need of reformation. Keep in mind that Iran is a sharia law country. It's by no means alone in it's opression of it's own citizens, particularly women.

Great idea. Thanks for the links !!!

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

Zionism will become the death of us all, but most Israelis are against Zionism. Most aspects of Zionism is forbidden as herecy by the orthodox sect of Judaism.

Zionism still exists, but it is realitively weak compare to what it was before.

There was a movement to help federalize Israel so that the Palestinians and Isrealis could live in peace and that movement was agreed upon by both Zionists and Palestinians, but by the majority of non-zionistic Isrealis.

There is still a current one going on.

http://www.pij.org/details.php?id=925

And there is anti-Zionistic Jewish movement.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

And here is the peace movement that started it all and its still running.

http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/he/homepage.asp

Basically they all want to make Palestine and Israel a joint federal republic. To bad not all Palestinians and Israelis feel the same way.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7...etheuscmh7.png

That was my own creation. It is a part of the United States of the Canaan. An idea I created that would establish a true and strong democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is in purple.
Palestine is in Red.
Gaza Strip (Al Gaza as an Arabic name for it) is in Blue
Golan Heights is in Dark Yellow
District of Jerusalem, which encompasses the capital is in grey.

Israel will retain much of its Israeli heritage and laws, but it will become greatly tolerant of the freedom of religion for muslims and allow Palestinians to settle in their land if they agree to become Israeli citizens.

Palestine will retain much of its Palestinian heritage and laws, but it will become greatly tolerant of the freedom of religion for muslims and allow Israelis to settle in their land if they agree to become Palestinian citizens.

The Gaza Strip will have independence from Palestine and become a muslims state of its own due to it being cut off from the remainder of Palestine. It will be given the name, Al Gaza, an arabic name and have probably most of the same laws and customes as that of Palestine. Since it is geographically distant from the remainder of Palestine, it will eventually grow its own unique culture and will demand independence. I'm just saving Palestine from going through that whole expense and time.

The Golan Heights will have independence from Israel and become a predominantly Druze state following Druze laws and costumes. Both Palestinians, Al Gazaians, and Isrealis can settle in that region if they can agree to become Golanian Citizens.

Lebanon, Janub Sina' (Southern Sinai), and Shamal Sina' (Northern Sinai shoud be given the right to join the USC (United States of the Canaan) as it may prove to be benefitial for them. For Lebanon that would be protection from Sinai, since now Israel and Palestine has their back, and for for the Sinai the opportunity to establish a seperate identity for African Egypt, since the Sinai is a part of Asia and not Africa. You could just simply combine the two and all the rest of the land on the East side of the Suez Canal and form just one state, since it would provide better strength and unity than to join USC as two or more seperate peices.