http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=10166
Tehran, Iran -- The Holocaust Foundation of Iran, an Iranian governmental commission set up to explore the true extent of alleged Jewish "suffering" during the Second World War, has asked the governments of Germany, Austria and Poland to provide documentation of the alleged "massacres" of Jews that occurred in camps the Soviets alleged to have found on their soil -- and the European governments have, predictably, been unable to comply.
Mohammad-Ali Ramin was appointed head of the commission after the Iranian government invited scholars to debate the question of whether the Holocaust was a fake or merely exaggerated for political ends in a conference in December. Yesterday, Ramin issued a statement on his request to the European nations.

Starting in 1933, six years before the start of the war, Jewish organizations, sponsored by the Soviet Union, began issuing statements that Jews were being massacred in Germany, while, in reality, the German government was struggling to stabilize the economy and improve the lives of Germany's working people. In 1944, before the end of the war and the actual "discovery" of the alleged camps, a Jewish-Soviet propagandist named Ilya Ehrenberg began to circulate the lie that "six million" Jews had been killed in camps -- a lie calculated to excite the brutality of the Soviet military, which was mostly staffed by Jewish political officers and commissars. After the war, in 1948, the Soviets built several "replica" "death camps" to show the world, claiming they were German originals. In 1996, the government of Poland admitted the camps they show as "Auschwitz" and other "death camps" were post-war fakes.

Despite this, the Jews still perpetuate the lie that there was a "Holocaust" in which "six million" were killed. In reality, the Germans shot Jewish communists who had been responsible for war crimes and acts of genocide, and imprisoned German Jews engaged in criminal activity. All Jews who died or were imprisoned during the Third Reich were criminals.

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http://illinoisns.blogspot.com/

theres been a lot of "the holocaust was a sham" sorta stuff floating around lately..

Lt. Winters found Treblinka, it was indeed a camp designed solely for killing people, like cattle..

it did happen, how widespread? no one knows, but we do know that Treblinka, Aushwitz, and Schindlers Polish Pot and shell making company did exist...

so, regarldess of the "Holocaust was overblown" position, the Nuremberg Trials were a just, well-documented Millitary Tribunal..and the Fascists, germany, japan, and italy namely, did indeed violently attack neighbor nations...

Dont mess with Britian, we like our weird, little welch cousins!!! sure, their kinda goofy, that doesnt mean we dont love them!!

You post some of the funniest stuff 88P. do you really believe half of this stuff yourself ? Even as far as propaganda, this article sucks ...

LOL. Riddle me this 88P. Why would Iran, out of all nations, want to check on the holocaust ? How does it possibly effect them ?! What the heck do they care if Germany is paying Jews ?! Maybe you understand them better than I do. Want my theory ? Iran wants to discredit the holocaust because they are convinced that if it wheren't for the holocaust, Israel would never have been recognized by the UN. They are being represented by idiots. It's 60 years later. Israel is a fact !! Get over it dude ... you too 88.

I love the use of the quotation marks and the word "alleged". ery good journalism mate. This author went to the Himler school of writting.

I'd love a coroborating link to this story from any respectable news outlet

These where the only two options ?! It was a hoax or it was exagerated for political ends ?! Boy ... this author is dumber than a box of rocks !!

Funny, I believe that the Nazi government claimed that they where trying to stabelize the economy by killing Jews. That whole "they are poison to the community and are rats" speaches by Hitler thing kinda gives it away.

So the Russians wheren't brutal to the Nazis because the Nazis invaded their country, killed anybody they ran across, where horrific to Russian POWs, and killed 20,000,000 Russial soldiers ?! No they where miffed because the German where killing Jews. Here's a newsflash boy, the US barely gave a rat's ass that Jews where being killed !! You think that the Russian army cared ?!
Also, can I get a coroborating link showing that most of the Russian top brass in WW2 was Jewish ?! Have fun trying to prove that !!

You do ealize that some people did survive these camps and are 1st person accounts of these places back in the day when these camps where going full swing. You do also realize that there is video and pictures of the liberation of many of these camps. They where most very certainly death camps. my great grandparents die in Auchwitz. So did plenty of others.

I guess there where a lot of Jewish German Communists !! The kicker here is that the author is apparently claiming that these Jews where "responsible for WAR CRIME and ACTS OF GENOCIDE". In Yiddish we'd say this guy has chutzpah. This is exacty what the Nazis stood trial for in Nuremburg and other trials and found guilty of, but this guy claims it was the Jews that where doing it. It takes cajones of steel to actually pring this level of disgusting bottom feader crap.

Well of course the "IMPRISONED German Jews" engaged in illegal criminal activity. I'm sure plenty smuggled things in and out just to survive. It wasn't like the Germans where feeding them enough.

they where certainly guilty of being Jews. That was a crime in nazi Germany. So i guess technically you're right.

Kudos to you 88Punx for bringing us such foul tripe. I sincerely hope you are not the author of this garbage. This was, by far, one of the dumbest articles I've ever read, and I've read tons. I just know you have a brain 88, but yu are turning it to mush reading this crap as your source of information. It's bunk mate. It doesn't even make logical sense.

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"The key difference between cats and lies is that cats only have 9 lives" - Mark Twain

I've seen and read enough on this that it is unquestioningly a fact. American soldiers liberated the camps in what would become West Germany and it is a fact. It's been a few years now but they even found the blueprints for the very first ovens. And they weren't for baking bread.

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the memories of a man in his old age
are the deeds of a man in his prime

roger waters

Holocaust denial is something else, isn`t it?

The ability to blind oneself to the vast accumulation of documentary evidence, to deafen oneself to the testimonies of eye-witness after eye-witness, to disregard the trials, the confessions, the surviving physical structures.

Nor does it restrict itself to the death and torture camps at Auschwitz, Belsen, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, etc but must, necessarily, extend to the mass murders, deportations and inhumanity suffered throughout Nazi controlled Europe (with the notable exception of Denmark)- in Warsaw, in Beaune-la-Rolande, in Eastern Russia where Himmler`s Einsatzgruppen extended the pogrom into the towns and villages behind the advance of Operation Barbarossa, in Budapest and elsewhere.

It must take a very special kind of ignorance, or bigotry, or worse - political expedience to take this mountainous wealth of evidence and corroboration and twist into a contrary argument.

But before we get too smug about our superiority over the bigots and hate-mongers let us remember that denial of genocide has solid precedent. For however great the evidence of the Jewish Holocaust there is another for which there is greater evidence still. A genocide that, unlike the Jewish, was fully reported as it was going on and yet is still denied.

The Armenian genocide arguably set the scene of the later Nazi atrocities. Certainly several officers from the German Army, that was to subsequently mimic the Turks with their own `Final Solution`, were present as observers. It was in Turkey where they discovered how many human beings can be stuffed into a cattletruck. Was it also from there that they realised the convenience of using proxy killers? Watching the Kurds do Turkey`s dirty work in the same way that the Nazi`s would later use Ukrainians for theirs?

The Armenian genocide is still not recognised by Israel, the US or the UK. Perhaps, before we complain too bitterly about Holocaust denial, we should stop our own.

"Who today speaks of the Armenians?"

Now who said that?

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Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Marx (G.)

88Punx you wrote:-

And how did Ehrenberg come by his information?

Vasily Grossman:- Journalist Writer (for his diaries see “A writer at War” Edited and translated by Antony Beevor and Luba Vinogradova). In 1943 Majdanek, a prison camp for Russian PoWs and Polish non Jews which was later turned into an extermination camp and Treblinka an extermination camp run under the control of Operation Rheinhart were liberated by the Red Army. Konstantine Simonov investigated Majdanek and Vasily Grossman interviewed survivors from Treblinka, the survivors that broke out when Treblinka was being liquidated.

Since many Russian PoWs and non Jewish victims suffered at Majdanek, the soviet authorities felt able to use Majdanek for propaganda.

Vasily Grossman estimated the total number of victims at Treblinka to be 3 million he calculated this from the number of trains he had heard about and their size. Subsequently the figure was reworked and found to be between 750,000 and 880,000. His error was in the size of the trains as they were normally split, the station at Treblinka being to short to take the usual 60 cattle trucks. But at point the other Rheinhart extermination camps had not been liberated, Sobibor and Belzec. Auschwitz I, Birkenau and Monowitz were not to be liberated for another year. And does not include the actions of the EinsatzGruppen.

Johnderondon

Her Hitler:- Hitler himself remarked to his SS officers in Poland to continue their massacres of Jews because, after all “who today speaks of the Armenians?”

Hansard Canada

Mr. Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon--Wanuskewin, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it is a fact that close to some 700,000 Armenians were killed or died of starvation and disease while being relocated during the first world war in eastern Anatolia. It is also a fact that more than 2 million Turks and Muslims were massacred in eastern Anatolia at the turn of the 20th century and during the first world war by Armenian revolutionary bands acting in co-operation with the Russians who were the Ottoman Empire's enemy.

What happened in eastern Anatolia during the first world war were tragic events from which lessons should be learned, for all of us here today and for the future, so that similar incidents of such ultra-nationalism that result in the total uprooting and devastation of any community around the world is not allowed to occur again.

The world has heard a lot about the Armenian losses due to the tireless efforts of Armenian individuals who in some cases it is sad to say have resorted to terrorism. The Turks recognize the Armenian deaths and they also acknowledge the suffering that took place in eastern Anatolia so many years ago.

What the Turks so strenuously object to is the Armenian activists' one sided portrayal of the tragic events to the world community and labelling them as genocide using in some cases distortion or exaggeration of facts to further their political agenda of obtaining money and land from Turkey. While doing so Armenians ignore the death and massacre of more than twice as many Turks at the hands of the Armenian revolutionary bands and the Russians whom they were helping during the first world war.

The Armenian accusations or allegations were not countered in North America and Europe until the 1980s because there were no significant populations outside Turkey until then. Armenians were unopposed in terms of the viewpoint of history they depicted to the North American public. Therefore others around the world did not have that understanding of another point of view on things.

Now that world opinion is becoming aware of the Armenian massacres of the Turkish and Muslim population, Armenian activists accuse anybody who questions their version of the events as attempting to rewrite history.

No Armenian publication or conference ever mentions the massacres of the Turkish and Muslim population by the Armenian revolutionary bands and terrorist organizations such as Hunchak and Dashnaktsutiun. In the kinds of genocide that Armenians claim, the alleged perpetrators ended up having ironically more dead than the victims, some 2 million Turks and Muslims.

After the first world war the Ottoman capital was under allied occupation and all state archives were under the control of the British authorities in Istanbul. As a result of constant accusations by Armenian individuals the British finally decided to transport more than 140 Ottoman high officials and cabinet members to Malta for a trial; almost like an anticipation of the Nuremberg trials.

The prisoners were held in Malta for 30 months while the British, French and the Americans searched feverishly for evidence. If there were any credible witnesses or evidence regarding the alleged Armenian massacres they should have been found in that period of time.

However, as a matter of fact, no evidence could be found in Paris, Istanbul or Anatolia to support the charge that the Ottomans had planned a mass slaughter of the Armenians. This is not at all to deny that very tragically and even horrifically large numbers of people were killed. I guess some would maybe question, and I am not the one who has a perfect knowledge of this, that it should be called a genocide.

The British high commission was unable to forward any legal evidence to London. There was nothing in the British archives that corroborated the accusations of the Armenians. I guess at the end of the day these individuals had to be released. Even though there had been those with utmost zeal trying to bring it forward, no evidence was produced.

I stand here today saying that we should move on, that we would not necessarily benefit a whole lot by looking back when there is a differing point of view here. Horrific events were perpetrated on the Armenians but also upon the Turks by these Armenian bands. I stand before the House today not having a final, settled, and determined conclusion about the matter. However I want there to be a more serious look at some of the other atrocities that were perpetrated upon the 2 million Turkish people in those days.

I am appealing for some balance in looking at some of the evidence and information. I am not convinced there is a reason and benefit in declaring an Armenian genocide, such that we would benefit in a big way from that in the future.

Ms. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond by first thanking my colleagues who have spoken to the motion before the House, whatever their views might have been.
The fact that we have different viewpoints clearly indicates that the time has come for this parliament to take a strong stand on this issue. If we had to wait for unanimity, we would get to vote on very few issues. Parliament is where decisions are made.
It is most unfortunate that the unanimous consent which was requested twice was not given. In my mind, that is miscarriage of democracy. Since September 11, democracy has been miscarried a few times in this House, which has ordinary Canadians and political analysts in Canada and around the world a bit worried.
Today, we were given the opportunity to demonstrate our values and the significance we give to history, and to say how despicable we find those well-orchestrated plans to eradicate a whole nation.
Of course, a people can be eradicated in very subtle ways. I will not go into this today, but one thing is clear, the events that took place between 1915 and 1920 nearly eradicated the Armenian people.
However, the Armenian people, because it has suffered so much, was incapable of recovering. Indeed, one only has to look at the numbers of Armenian artists who make us proud in Quebec and Canada because they have become integrated into our culture.
Finally, I would like to invite hon. members to go to see the lastest movie by Atom Egoyan, an Armenian filmmaker, who has won many prizes for his work. It deals with the Armenian genocide. By watching this film, many of us will have a better understanding of what the destruction of a society means.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublicat...&Parl=37&Ses=1

Hansard UK

Baroness Cox asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will extend the Commemoration of the Holocaust on 27th January to include other examples of genocide, as defined by United Nations criteria, and the Armenian massacre in 1915.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the Government decided that Holocaust Memorial Day should focus on learning the lessons of the Holocaust and other more recent atrocities that raise similar issues--and not necessarily genocide as defined by the 1948 UN Convention on Genocide. A particular focus on events around the period 1939 to 1945 and thereafter should not be seen as failing to acknowledge, sympathise with and respect the deep concerns about earlier events like the massacre of Armenians in 1915 and 1916.

Baroness Cox: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that partially encouraging reply. Does he agree that, without in any way detracting from the commemoration of the Jewish Holocaust, to deny recognition of other comparable crimes against humanity diminishes the significance? Does he also agree that one of the most important aspects of the commemoration is to discourage further genocide? Any genocide forgotten or denied may well encourage other genocides, as illustrated by Hitler's infamous question posed before he began the extermination of the Jews: "Who today speaks of the Armenians"?

Well Hitler got that wrong as well there are some do speak for the Armenians. Unfortunately some people think like, 88punx, that they did it to themselves.

...but not any longer Mr. Bush.

Gee Dubya, who had no problem seeing plain facts before he was elected President.

Back then he was quite clear about what had happened to the Armenian people...

http://www.anca.org/press_releases/p...ses.php?prid=3

...they had suffered genocide but now? Oh no.

A massacre, yes. A tragedy... infamous killings... but never, no, no, never, ever the word `genocide` from the weasel-worded cowboy.

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Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
Marx (G.)

When he needed money and votes he spoke thus when he needed Turkish airspace he spoke another way.

The war on terror has more casualties, truth was the first, logic the second and lives thereafter.