Is it just me, or does anyone else take issue with the way this forum topic ("Zionist Agenda") has been tossed into the same FROOT-LOOP GARBAGE BIN as the "Apollo was faked" discussion and Dubya's secret UFO technology?

In my (exhaustively developed) opinion, even the choice of language for this topic ("Zionist Agenda") is misleading and confining. It is impossible at this late date to seriously entertain the notion that Jewish-American "Chosen Ones" (a.k.a. crazed cackling Judeo-BIGOTS) have designs ONLY on Israel and/or the ME, when their heart's desires so obviously include the total subversion and destruction of American culture and civic life as we have known them. If you don't know what I mean, keep your eyes peeled for my 'nym, because I will be spelling it out for you CRYSTAL CLEAR

I now propose a new name for this topic, consistent with its staggering scale, scope, and historical context:

America's 'Jewish Problem'

I also suggest to the administrators that it be moved out of the Froot-Loop Bin™ into a more serious position.

This subject is absolutely NOT Froot-Loop terrain. It's as deadly REAL as it gets.

The idea that 14 million Jews are manipulating 6 billion nonJews -- and agreeing to suffer pogroms, discrimination and other insults while doing so -- is why this is most certainly in the Froot-Loop Zone.

I'll agree that a narrower definition of Zionism -- those that support the existence of Israel -- doesn't belong here. But that's clearly not what you're talking about.

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Man up.

Raytri said:
Interesting distortions are rolled into this.

First of all the idea that Jews are manipulating public opinion globally via their incontestable dominance of every category of mass media and many other cultural institutions, e.g. academia, is MUCH LESS FANCIFUL than the proposition that they're absolutely controlling them, which they obviously are NOT. If they were, they wouldn't have to manipulate Americans into torturing their enemies to death in the ME, now would they?

The term "manipulating" encompasses an infinite range of shadings. You seem to imply it means the same as "absolute control." Why would you do that??

And then there's the inevitable evocation of the puke-inducing "oh, how Jews have SUFFERED!!" MYTHOLOGY

Oh, they haven't suffered nearly as much as they've CAUSED suffering for others...

For six million-plus ethnic Ukrainian 'Kulaks' during the 1930s, for just ONE example

You seem to be dismissing out of hand that such a "small" number of people ("only" 14 million) could possibly wield decisive control, Raytri.

This is preposterous on its face.

What about billionaires, Raytri?? There are less than a thousand of them worldwide. Do you deny that billionaires exert fantastic collective control over world affairs? What about any ruling dynasty or tyrant junta you can point to? Do you think these have EVER amounted to a larger percentage of the societies they were controlling? Go ahead, please say it's so. It appears you don't really understand what "civilization" IS...

Are you Jewish, Raytri?

Sweeeet! Raytri.. go use your jewgold to buy us a new server.

Unless we can get that other jew billionaire Bill Gates to buy one for PF.

My questions were addressed to Raytri.

***personal attack deleted.***

ahuh, and I wasn't talking to you either. ***personal attack deleted.***

but now that you are here... are you a jew, Hook?

Outsize influence, sure, but still less than you might think. There are certain kinds of power money can't buy, and even Bill Gates' $40 billion is a drop in the bucket to the U.S. government.

Besides, how many of the world's billionaires are Jewish? A minority. Which further undermines your contention that Jews rule -- unless you argue that all the gentile billionaires are simply their allies or pawns.
http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/07/bil...llie_land.html

Of the top 20, only 3 are Jewish by even the most generous definition of the term.

Tangentially, here are some interesting things about other members of the top 20.

One, Ingvar Kamprad (founder of IKEA) had Nazi connections. Another, Liliane Bellencourt, had a father with strong Nazi connections before and during World War II. A third, Prince Al-Waleed, is a Saudi prince. Karl Albrecht, who shares the top 20 with his brother Theo, was a German soldier during World War II.

So there are as many people with Nazi links as there are Jews among the 20 richest people on earth!

Why would that matter? Would my being Jewish somehow change the meaning of my words?

__________________
Man up.

No, absolutely not. If I were, altruism (and self-respect) would demand I kill myself.

You know, you still have yet to make a sensible point! It's interesting that you use Ahnold as your Avatar when your "arguments" are so, well -- punkish. Why would you want to associate yourself with that swaggering Nazi (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*), anyway?

This is a flat-out lie. It doesn't take much research into those names to find this out. There was press back in the early 80's that Gates is Jewish, but this has apparently been systematically rooted out and strangled out of existence. How interesting...

You've actually EVADED every single point I raised, you know.

Once again, do billionaires, as a truly tiny group, exert extraordinary control or don't they? Quit mixing in Jews as a way to avoid admitting they DO. Your argument smells an awful lot like schmaltz when you do that

1) you are once again EVADING A DIRECT SIMPLE QUESTION (Gee, why would you do that, I wonder... )

2) You seem to assume there's some sort of force of MEANING behind your words, when again they're just so many rathole-squirming games and evasive maneuvers

3) to answer your own question, YES, it DOES influence my willingness to accept your "facts" and opinions on this subject, since a "yes" answer to my question would introduce completely reasonable suspicions of bias/ulterior motives/distortion/lying on your part -- reasonable suspicions that you are doing nothing to dispel, of course

In my experience, all zionist commentary on such subjects are creepy exact INVERSIONS of truth and reality! It must be a Kabbalah thing.

So, once more, Raytri, ARE YOU JEWISH???

Again, this is a DIRECT SIMPLE QUESTION, for which a DIRECT SIMPLE ANSWER will take one of two forms:

1) YES

2) NO

Take heed: another evasion will be tantamount to "YES"

Then do it. I did the research already. If I'm wrong, prove it.

Uh-huh. Please, please PLEASE claim that Gates is Jewish. I'm begging you.

For the record, Bill is an atheist or agnostic. His parents were Congregationalist. His wife, Melinda, is Catholic.

I did?

I answered that question. The answer was "outsized influence, but not as much as you might think." I was pretty clear.

Okay.

I'm not evading it so much as amused by the irrelevancy of the question. Once again, how would my Jewishness or nonJewishness be relevant to this discussion? If you can demonstrate why it's relevant, I'll be happy to tell you. But I frankly don't see how my ethnic or religious background has any bearing on the content of my words.

Since I don't present facts without backing them up, and you're free to check them or challenge them, I don't quite get your logic.

For example, I shall now assert a fact: "A triangle has three sides." Do you need to know whether I'm Jewish before you can evaluate that statement?

Now I'll offer an opinion: "George Bush is a weeniehead." Do you need to know whether I'm Jewish to evaluate that opinion? Or would it be more relevant to examine my *reasons* for thinking Bush is a weeniehead?

Or simply check/dispute any of the facts I've presented above about Bill and Melinda. Why do you need to know my ethnicity/faith to do so?

Never mind that I could simply lie about whether I'm Jewish.

Oh, be still my heart.

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Man up.