It would only take 9 minutes to destroy Israel

Goomba · Jun 14, 2012

HBendor said: ↑

Apparently what you describe has some value. Mark Twain wrote practically the same about Palestine. Now the Jews have transformed the place (or on the way) to a small paradise.
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The above has already been tackled:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story845.html

Back to Hasbara Central with you.

jack4freedom · Jun 15, 2012

big daryle said: ↑

Why in the ---- would we get involved in isreals business????????
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Because our government is infested at all levels with traitors whose loyalty is to Israel and not America....Thus, this phony "war on terror" crap....

alexa · Jun 15, 2012

Is this worth the bother?

Mushroom said: ↑

Funny, because I played it before I linked it, so I know it is working just fine.
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I live in the UK. No response on the link here. Anyone else from the UK can try or indeed from anywhere outside the US.

Mushroom said: ↑

Maybe the Jews are secretly censoring your Internet.
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stop being racist. Nothing to do with 'the Jews' but you must be well aware that Israel PR does indeed do such. People expressing views of which she does not like find themselves subject to law suites which makes freedom of expression impossible. That is reality. To suggest it is 'the Jews' censoring is lies and an antisemetic distortion. However Israel backers making it hard for free speech happens without question - wherever they come from, and whatever religion they do or do not have or ethnicity they come from.

Mushroom said: ↑

Or maybe they are censoring AJ. In fact, maybe they are secretly controlling AJ and made them take it off as part of their conspiracy.
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So your abuse grows. First you try yadda yadda yadda then you accuse opponents of classic antisemitism. Pretty lacking in argument.

Mushroom said: ↑

Or maybe AJ just took it off as most web sites do, because after a while it is no longer newsworthy, so no longer of importance. Happens all the time you know.
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In my experience it is unusual not to be able to find a version of something of this quality so soon after. Search Al Jazeera and you will no longer be able to find even mention of it. However search for a similar program which Al Jazeera did on the Armenian Genocide and it is quite accessible on the web in English. I am comparing like with like.

Mushroom said: ↑

But here is the website of the producers, you can buy the DVD there.

http://www.trabelsiproductions.com/Jaffa.php
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That does not make it available for me to give a link to or for it to be widely viewable on the web. That gives it restricted access. I for instance would not buy it but I watched it free on my tv.

Mushroom said: ↑

It was also shown a few months ago at York University in Canada.

http://ljubljana.apartheidweek.org/ar/node/723
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That clearly will not suite 99.999999999% of people on the internet.

Mushroom said: ↑

http://www.trabelsiproductions.com/Jaffa.php
Click to expand...

What's this one. Indian or something. No good to me.

Mushroom said: ↑

And I love one of the reviews of the film I saw:

Very few documentaries have made me so conflicted as Jaffa, The Oranges Clockwork. The film is actually very biased, but the film is presented like it is giving a balanced, thoughtful history of Jaffa, the marketing and the images surrounding it. Most of the experts mix actual historical facts with their own opinions, which tend to blur together after a while. What we have instead is a film that whitewashes over many of the key facts in history in this region. The film gives the impression that Jews and Palestinians got along peacefully before 1948 and there is barely a mention of Britains colonial rule of Palestine. It basically implies that Palestine was a utopia of peace and harmony before the war, but anyone with even a basic history of the region would know of the tensions that always existed. I am not about to get into a debate about Palestinians vs Israelis in the region, I am simply pointing out a very deliberate bias that dominates the film. I would make the same comment if a documentary about the region had such a strong Israeli bias as well.
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The film gives historical information based on documentary evidence and speaking to people who remember. You would love the review because it suits your bias but is not built on anything but a biased viewpoint whereas the film was built on concrete evidence.

The orange may not seem like the most obvious point of departure for an examination of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but during the last century, the disputed border area between Israel and the territories was one of the world's biggest exporters of this "orange gold." In Jaffa, The Orange's Clockwork, director Eyal Sivan reconstructs how Jaffa started out as a Palestinian place name before becoming an Israeli brand name, and how the orange harvest shifted from a joint undertaking into a symbol used by both parties in the escalating conflict. The filmmaker uses a great deal of archive footage, from the very earliest photography in 1840 right up to crisp, modern video. The images are accompanied by commentary from a range of experts, who watch them projected on the walls of their offices or on tablecloths hung up in their living rooms. From historians to art experts, poets to political analysts, each gives his or her perspective on the archive footage, which over the years has become increasingly laden with ideological significance. Orange eaters and pickers -- many of whom remember the more harmonious times when Jews and Arabs still worked side by side in the orchards -- also have their say.
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http://www.idfa.nl/industry/tags/project.aspx?id=83b9cd4c-ce01-45f1-abaa-ad21b6683f6e

or

-snip-

A wealth of materials, including archival photographs, film footage and other cultural artifacts, is interwoven with numerous interviews; they combine to offer a powerful refutation of the version of history promulgated by the Israeli elite and its apologists.

The Jaffa orange, as the film notes, has been identified with the state of Israel largely due to a global publicity campaign long waged by that state. What is not widely known, and what we learn here, is how Israel effectively masked the appropriation of what was once the chief agricultural product of Arab peoples in the region as an integral part of a wider disinformation campaign.

Sivan, a veteran documentarian born in Haifa and who now lives in London, presumes a good deal of knowledge on the spectators part about the Middle East conflict, and so the audience is required to fill in many blanks. Moreover, the films underlying assumption is that the heart of the conflict lies in a struggle between Arab and Jewish nationalisms. A good deal is overlooked here, most notably the relations between the exploiters and the exploited, in both the Arab and Jewish communities. As well, little attention is paid to the machinations of the great powers in fomenting communal and national divisions to serve their own ends.

The film nevertheless brings to bear the experience and knowledge of a wide range of historians, artists, farmers and even Israeli officialsconnected through the most important agricultural export of the region, the Jaffa orange, providing a rich background to its political history.
The family album

Proceeding more or less chronologically, Sivan questions a number of witnesses and scholars on the history of the citrus industry in the region. An old man looks at black-and-white photographs of the citrus harvest from his younger days. We see vintage film footage of workers in the orange groves, while an Israeli historian explains in a voiceover that Here, Jews and Arabs work peacefully together.

Watching archival footage, a Palestinian historian reflects on how the fame of Jaffa the orange has eclipsed any knowledge of Jaffa the city, which is now part of Tel Aviv, and attributes this in part to the sheer scale of the export that until recently saw nearly 5 million crates of the oranges exported annually.

He explains how in the latter days of Palestine, only 7 or 8 percent of the land was Jewish-owned, but nevertheless how all worked together as a family. Whoever claims otherwise is ignorant of the situation of that period. This is something of a theme throughout the film, but one senses that this picture of harmonious cooperation between workers and landowners, Arab or Jewish, should be taken with a certain grain of salt.

In one particularly hard-hitting segment, an elderly Palestinian worker explains with no apparent resentment how he came to be employed in the very orchards stolen from his family after 1948. He tells how their lands were seized by the government and run by the Custodian of Absentees Land who took the harvests for themselves, even as he toiled in his own orchards.
Historical falsification

A central slogan of Zionist propaganda was a land without people for a people without land. Rona Sela, an Israeli curator and researcher, demonstrates how early photographs of the region deliberately portrayed it as desolate, inviting conquest and cultivation.

Sela continues, showing how images of the orange were used to signify the liberation and taming of the land with the arrival of Jewish settlers. First we appropriate their image, then we took their land after 48But thats another story.

Israeli historian Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin examines the claim that the Jews were driven out of historical Palestine, which he explains was originally a Christian myth, later adopted by the Zionists to prove their birthright and that their arrival was a return from exile. The orange is attached to this theological myth in a way that serves to turn Palestine into the land of fulfillment of biblical culture.

Jaffa, the Oranges Clockwork shows that under the British mandate following the First World War, Arabs and Jews were integrated in the work of the citrus orchards. Shlomo Rizman of the Federation of Farmers in Israel notes, after the establishment of Israel and prior to the kibbutzim and the moshavim (varying forms of cooperative and collective farms), even those Jewish farmers who continued to hire Arab workers were persecuted by the state as right wing by the supposedly socialist Israeli government.
Click to expand...

part 2 to follow

alexa · Jun 15, 2012

Palestinian historian and author Elias Sanbar notes that documentaries intended to justify Israeli ownership of the land portrayed the charming and antiquated lifestyle of the Arab workers alongside what appear as the much less attractive, almost militaristic, introduction of European agricultural technique by way of the immigration of European Jews. Further on, such images are related to the propaganda methods of the Stalinist regime used to promote Soviet agriculture.

Strike and expulsion

Although not treated in any detail, unfortunately, the role the colonial powers played in the region inevitably comes up for discussion. The British imperialists are condemned by both Jews and Arabs.

The film asserts that a turning point in the promotion of Jewish settlement to Palestine came in 1936 when dockworkers in the port city of Jaffa walked out for six months. The British, determined to maintain citrus exports, issued a permit to build a port across the bay at Tel Aviv, provoking outrage from the mostly Arab strikers. As one Arab worker relates, It wasnt the Jews, it was the English. It wasnt the Arabs. It was the Englishand so friction grew between them.

The founding of Israel in 1948 witnessed the mass expulsion of the Arab population and the virtual destruction of Jaffa. We see footage of Arabs fleeing in boats, accompanied by an interview with former Israeli commander Yosef Nachmias. He makes no apology for the brutal actions of the Zionist regime and proudly relates how a census demonstrated that of the 85,000 Arabs once living in Jaffa, only 3,000 remained.

An aging Palestinian, Ismail Abou Shahadeh, provides an especially moving recollection. Earlier in the film, he reflects poetically on his days working in Jaffa. You had to be in a plane to see the city. It was in the orchards. Orchards, orchards, houses and orchards everywhere.

Now asked about the expulsion in 1948, he struggles to contain his emotions, Ive spoken about this more than onceit makes me cry. Suffice it to say that 4,000 bombs were dropped on Jaffaand it was a small place. And after a pause, You must wipe 1948 from your mind. Forgetting is a blessing from God.
Branding Israel

Discussing the use of the Jaffa orange in advertising campaigns, Zvi Kenan, former chairman of the Citrus Marketing Board of Israel admits, We knew we were promoting Israels cause to the public. In 76 we learned it was second only to Coca-Cola in public awareness.

Israeli historian Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin explains, The Jaffa brand erased Jaffa. Zionist Israel took it and turned it into its own emblem, which wholly silences the Palestinians. Israel of the oranges is Israel without Arabs. The leftist Tel Aviv is the only Western city without Arabs. This is exactly the premise behind its secularism, to take the oranges and expel the Arabs.

In one of the films final comments, Raz-Krakotzkin asserts that The orange ought to be the symbol of both potentiality and destruction. Through the orange, you unfold the story of the Zionist seizure of the country in every way.

Jaffa, the Oranges Clockwork has deservedly received a number of international awards. Sivans other documentaries include The Specialist (1999), consisting entirely of footage of the 1961 trial of Adolf Eichmann, the Nazi official charged with the mass deportation of Jews to the death camps.

The director has come under attack for his views, including his declaration that the partition of Palestine and creation of Israel was an historical error. Sivan consistently points to the crying contradiction in the claim of the Israeli state to be correcting historic wrongs against the Jewish people while it continues to perpetrate injustice against the Palestinians.

One is not obliged to agree with all of Sivans views to offer sympathy and encouragement for the opposition to historical falsification and official Israeli policy expressed in Jaffa, the Oranges Clockwork. The filmmakers efforts are an antidote to the uncritical support of Israeli oppression still routinely granted by Washington and its allies, along with the North American media.
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http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/jaff-m05.shtml

Mushroom said: ↑

And of course it has it's own IMDB page.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1720949/
You can also download it here:
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I see no download, just a trailer

Mushroom said: ↑

http://www.nox.to/showitem.jsp?type=movie&id=4759
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In German, do not speak it

Mushroom said: ↑

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/jaff-m05.shtml

Or you can watch it right here on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cgb-VbL7dA
Click to expand...

Fine for Paris but my French is limited - soon to be sorted for young Scot's who will be learning a second language from primary school Paris

Mushroom said: ↑

I have not been inaccurate at all. However, since I can find it so easily and you seem unable to, I guess that wherever you are they censor the Internet. Because I certainly had no problems finding it.
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You have not presented one link which provides an English version which I can listen to so that is not true. You have found some limited access but access is very limited. On a film so poignant that remains surprising. You have certainly been inaccurate. There is no question you must have spent some time finding these oblique versions in foreign languages. You also have shown you are incapable of reasoned argument both in your quote

Mushroom said: ↑

Yea, yea, yea, just what we need. Another movie to show that the Jews stole everything, and need to be destroyed so Palestine can be great again. Yadda-Yadda-Yadda.
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which is a perverse reply showing no ability to deal with reality and in your resorting to playing the classic antisemitism card rather than argue. You have shown yourself to be incapable of discussing things but just throwing tomatoes at people who present information you do not like. Again the original mistruth presented was that Palestine was a barren place. That was what I was replying to and where your continued personal attacks have come from.

Dislike was for using the antisemitism card rather than argument.

HBendor · Jun 15, 2012

alexa said: ↑

Not true I am afraid. Some areas yes but not all of Palestine that was a myth perpetrated by the British and early Zionists. Al Jazeera had an excellent film on it earlier this year Jaffa, The Orange's Clockwork which explains how the Palestinians fertile land and livelihood was taken from them. For some reason I cannot find the film - modern censorship no doubt. However here is a trailer

[video=youtube;RJH5-6CIrrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJH5-6CIrrk[/video]

It
Click to expand...

Sorry to bust your bubble... Some Jews returned home after a long exile... They worked the land together with the local Arabs...
Every inch of land was purchased and paid for in full... To describe the situation as one sided i.e. that the Jews confiscated Arab lands is a pipe dream an atrocious display of untruth reminiscent of the Arafat era.

Thanks for the Movie, and I hope you will have the time to watch it in its entirety.
Israel does not want the Arabs out, they want the Foreigners/Alien or those that have foreign passports out.
Spend more time on studying the problem and do not try to add fuel to the fire of discontent.

"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others."

Solomon Ibn Gabriol

HBendor · Jun 15, 2012

Yes a satire in someone's head I presume.
What do you know about Mark Twain, prey tell.

It goes to mention that all name droppers do not read history... Mark Twain of "Innocent Abroad" is turning in his grave.

Mushroom · Jun 16, 2012

alexa said: ↑

In my experience it is unusual not to be able to find a version of something of this quality so soon after. Search Al Jazeera and you will no longer be able to find even mention of it. However search for a similar program which Al Jazeera did on the Armenian Genocide and it is quite accessible on the web in English. I am comparing like with like.
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So soon? Buddy, this is 2 years old. A lifetime on the Internet.

And it is available commercially for sale (I know, because I already provided you the ling).

If you love it so much, just go and buy it. There are also torrents available for this film, but I did not link to those because I do not support piracy.

alexa said: ↑

You have not presented one link which provides an English version which I can listen to so that is not true. You have found some limited access but access is very limited. On a film so poignant that remains surprising. You have certainly been inaccurate. There is no question you must have spent some time finding these oblique versions in foreign languages. You also have shown you are incapable of reasoned argument both in your quote.
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Look, it is not my fault you do not know foreign languages. It is available, and it is out there, both for free and for pay.

And I have not been inaccurate. You yourself said some of them played, it is not my fault you can't understand them. As for the one in English, it plays fine for me. Must be your Internet, but do not say I did not provide anything.

And because you could not view or understand the links, you put up a "dislike", very mature.

highlander · Jun 20, 2012

Aye.... right enough....Just in exactly in the same manner as they're forerunners, Hitler and the Nazi regime did in Germany!

But they exceed in the atrocities and genocide Hitler could only dream.

What propaganda, an amazing manner they define those fighting for there lives from starvation and extermination as terrorists!

You might believe the bull...... the rest of the world knows exactly what they're doing!

Regards
Highander

highlander · Jun 20, 2012

http://www.albawaba.com/behind-news/palestinian-target-practice-us-tourists-west-bank-430313

Aye bloody good genocide merchants.
Regards
Highlander

highlander · Jun 20, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYtbsxZFOTw&feature=player_embedded

Aye merchant of piece...certainly not peace!

Regards
Highlander

highlander · Jul 16, 2012

HBendor said: ↑

Sorry to bust your bubble... Some Jews returned home after a long exile... They worked the land together with the local Arabs...
Every inch of land was purchased and paid for in full... To describe the situation as one sided i.e. that the Jews confiscated Arab lands is a pipe dream an atrocious display of untruth reminiscent of the Arafat era.

Thanks for the Movie, and I hope you will have the time to watch it in its entirety.
Israel does not want the Arabs out, they want the Foreigners/Alien or those that have foreign passports out.
Spend more time on studying the problem and do not try to add fuel to the fire of discontent.

"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others."

Solomon Ibn Gabriol

Click to expand...

Aye...right enough...the only thing missing from you detailed submission was at the start......it should read.....Once upon a time!

Bollocks the best manner in which to describes your "facts"

Highlander

Ivan88 · Jul 25, 2012

Here are some of the people that the war crazies hate so much:
[video=youtube;URqN0Iu64D4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URqN0Iu64D4&feature=related[/video]

danielpalos · Jul 25, 2012

Would we still have the mediocre public policies we have had in the Middle East (on a longitudinal basis) if we had established another State in historic Palestine and respected States' rights?

Ivan88 · Jul 29, 2012

If America were obeying its Divine Mandate as described in the American Declaration of Independence “to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them,”and to have “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind"
and had not supported the re-establishment of the old Pharisee/Talmudic power center that murdered the Perfect Man,

there would be peace in the region, and America would be much honored and respected.

Ivan88 · Jul 29, 2012

Here are some of the atom bombs that make the Pharisees so anxious:

[video=youtube;48UPtECW6Hs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48UPtECW6Hs[/video]

The PROPHET JOSEPH http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=5770e1dc3ef156762cec

These 3 videos were produced in Iran for Iranian National TV and reveal the character of the Pharisee mentality that is behind much of the chaos in the world.

groupthink · Jul 31, 2012

Ivan88 said: ↑

Here are some of the people that the war crazies hate so much:
[video=youtube;URqN0Iu64D4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URqN0Iu64D4&feature=related[/video]
Click to expand...

if those children are not Jewish, then they are of the devil.. and are soulless demons

danielpalos · Jul 31, 2012

In my opinion, we could be engendering a more perfect Union of States, by promoting the general welfare and that form of States' rights, merely by being fiscally responsible enough to take a voice vote for free, during times of lowering Taxes and therefore, not real times of war.

highlander · Aug 1, 2012

danielpalos said: ↑

In my opinion, we could be engendering a more perfect Union of States, by promoting the general welfare and that form of States' rights, merely by being fiscally responsible enough to take a voice vote for free, during times of lowering Taxes and therefore, not real times of war.
Click to expand...

Please ....... Please..... remove ones head from one's rectum!

Its not war, to have a war you need a standing army, your lot are sending in drones to murder, assassinate anyone you want. Regardless of being totally innocent of any crime, unarmed, you just can, your a nation of degenerates plain and simple!

Have a nice day ya here!

Highlander
Regards
Highlander

axialturban · Aug 1, 2012

highlander said: ↑

Please ....... Please..... remove ones head from one's rectum!

Its not war, to have a war you need a standing army, your lot are sending in drones to murder, assassinate anyone you want. Regardless of being totally innocent of any crime, unarmed, you just can, your a nation of degenerates plain and simple!

Have a nice day ya here!

Highlander
Regards
Highlander
Click to expand...

Delusional post much?

danielpalos · Aug 2, 2012

highlander said: ↑

Please ....... Please..... remove ones head from one's rectum!

Its not war, to have a war you need a standing army, your lot are sending in drones to murder, assassinate anyone you want. Regardless of being totally innocent of any crime, unarmed, you just can, your a nation of degenerates plain and simple!

Have a nice day ya here!

Highlander
Regards
Highlander
Click to expand...

Our exorbitantly expensive superpower comes from taxes on not just the wealthy who already have enough money to make more money.

highlander · Aug 2, 2012

danielpalos said: ↑

Our exorbitantly expensive superpower comes from taxes on not just the wealthy who already have enough money to make more money.
Click to expand...

I think someone is talking to you...... aahmmmmm..... who is delusional?

May I point out the rich pay no or very little taxes.

And you're bankrolled by China! Thats why your moving your troops to the far east you silly sausage, you cannot pay what you owe!

And there is only one way to sort that out!!!!

But please feel free to contradict the information which you have obviously read, but are unable to grasp the facts, but for some its easy to produce wind! Like yer sel!

Have a nice day.... ya hear! Those murdered today by your reprobates have no more fear, though there children may starve if you didn't murder them also!

Highlander

highlander · Aug 2, 2012

danielpalos said: ↑

Our exorbitantly expensive superpower comes from taxes on not just the wealthy who already have enough money to make more money.
Click to expand...

I think someone is talking to you...... aahmmmmm..... who is delusional?

May I point out the rich pay no or very little taxes.

And you're bankrolled by China! Thats why your moving your troops to the far east you silly sausage, you cannot pay what you owe!

And there is only one way to sort that out!!!!

But please feel free to contradict the information which you have obviously read, but are unable to grasp the facts, but for some its easy to produce wind! Like yer sel!

Have a nice day.... ya hear! Those murdered today by your reprobates have no more fear, though there children may starve if you didn't murder them also!

Highlander

danielpalos · Aug 2, 2012

I believe we would have very different public policies, if the wealthiest had to pay wartime tax rates, even for a War on Drugs.

highlander · Aug 28, 2012

danielpalos said: ↑

I believe we would have very different public policies, if the wealthiest had to pay wartime tax rates, even for a War on Drugs.
Click to expand...

What a load of tom tit!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19581

Pray tell... why would they stop drugs when its those bastards that are taking it in and making money to pay the tens of thousands of mercenaries!

War on Drugs ...... waken up and smell the coffee!

Regards
Highlander

highlander · Aug 28, 2012

danielpalos said: ↑

I believe we would have very different public policies, if the wealthiest had to pay wartime tax rates, even for a War on Drugs.
Click to expand...

What a load of tom tit!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19581

Pray tell... why would they stop drugs when its those bastards that are taking it in and making money to pay the tens of thousands of mercenaries!

War on Drugs ...... waken up and smell the coffee!

Regards
Highlander

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