Should Government Control or Outlaw Unions?

Let the nazi scumbags try!

 

You people cannot be this dense. You're full grown adults, for crying out loud. Let me say this again for those of you that missed it the first time. YOU FIND ANOTHER JOB FIRST BEFORE YOU QUIT THE ONE YOU HAVE. This is a little something called basic common sense. I thought this was something most people could figure out on their own by deductive reasoning, but I'm beginning to wonder if the stereotype really is true that liberals just don't believe in common sense. Come on, guys, think. This is very simple stuff here. You get in the car before you turn it on. You put your pants on before you put your shoes on. You open the door before you try to walk through it. I cannot stress these things enough.

I get the feeling some of you wake up every morning and try to pour yourselves a cup of coffee without checking first to see if you're even holding a coffee mug. You know that scalding sensation of hot Folgers in your lap? You know that instantaneous realization of not wanting to do that again? That's called common sense. You guys really might want to reconsider it.

 

It's customary to read and understand a post before responding to it. Not mandatory, mind you, but customary.

 

No, you don't always find another job before you quit the one you have. This is common sense and the only reason I point it out to you is that you are now coming off as honestly not understanding that. I really don't think you're joking anymore.

Sure, it's desirable to find another job before you quit the one you have but in even the majority of cases it's not the practice as it's usually quite impossible for a variety of reasons. This is just one more issue like your confusion over whether or not it's alright to hurt people.

I'm only trying to help you on this and I'm totally willing to explain further if you need me to.

 

This is the crap I can't stand. Whine about the union thugs, while gloating about gun thugs!

Atleast you are pointing out why the unions were forced to become so violent in the past, there is a long history of business thinking they are above the law, and hiring outlaws to enforce their will against an American citizen!

 

If the cops did their job and ejected trespassers it wouldn't be an issue. Problem is they are union controlled too, and they don't uphold the law against their own gangs. If cops wont eject trespassers, you have every right to do it yourself. Unions are always given the option leave peacefully, they ask for a fight. How would you deal with a mob that has your taxpayer hired protection as their muscle?

 

A lot of people CAN"T find other work, thanks to outsourcing scumbag companies,

 

So who must pay you until you get your act together? The people who want you gone or the unemployment insurance coffers?

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During the peak of outsourcing unemployment was lower then where it is now. International trade does not hurt us. Floating exchange rates, US dollar is only worth something here etc... etc... All trade benefits everyone involved unless it is a coerced transaction, or based on fraud or misinformation.

 

Yeah, this isn't what happened at all, and the documentary about Harlen County clearly shows this!

Gun thugs murdered a kid, 18 year old kid, trying to intimidate him into to quit being a union man.

Driving down the street at night firing off automatic weapons at a picketing location away from the coal plant.

The facts just don't line up with your claims.

 

well of course the people who want you gone shouldn't have to pay you, but the insurance scheme must. The insurance scheme needs to charge premiums to both the worker and the employer that will cover the experience and most do that.

But the employer also pays a contribution into the insurance scheme and that is an incentive for employers to not lay people off when it's not necessary. It's an agreement freely entered into by both management and labour in a free society.

It's a system that works very well in any reasonable and liberal society. It then only becomes a question of whether or not a society is able to sustain the plan. The US, being the richest country in the world, per capita would be the most able to sustain sucha scheme in my opinion. Canada's businesses and worker have no trouble sustaining it!

 

In the real world, you can be compelled to join a union. The "fee" will be equal to the union dues, to the penny. So yexs, you certainly CAN be forced to join a union. Claiming otherwise is simply dishonest.

 

Consider that if the majority wants the union then you have to go with the majority. Why? Because there are laws that force people to go with the majority decision. There are also laws that mandate an employer pay everyone the same rate of pay, respective of the job he/she is doing. That means, if a union worker is washing dishes in a restaurant alongside of another worker doing exactly the same job, the non-union worker would not be paid less. So you see, an imagined infringement of the rights of employers can also be an infringement on the rights of workers. Or vice-versa.

But why would anyone not want to belong to the union unless it's on some trumped up religious grounds or it's through threat from the employer?

 

Agreed on this part. The employee pays all of it, employers can do math. That is what should happen. Will get back to the rest of your post, but I am glad we can agree every blue moon, otherwise I think you are way out there.

Well I will have to check that out then. I will watch it. If that is the case, the second those people left the property to attack people who were home, or were picketing at a location that does not blocking access to their livelihood or threatening the welfare of people they call scabs, then they should be put in jail. From what you describe it sounds like aggravated assault and a case of murder. Other then that, defense of property and others covers most union busting activity. If the union cops could just do their job though in these cases no vigilantism would be needed. The fired people would go home, and the new employees would go to work.

 

Keep looking, look elsewhere, start your own business, etc. Or just sit there and keep making excuses to continue stewing in your current life that you hate. Which is all it sounds like you really want to hear anyway.

 

Watch the documentary. You stay on strike for over a year, with reasonable demands, and it becomes a PR nightmare for the company. This is what happened in the Harlen County Documentary. When it became a national news story, and people were supporting the strike in NY, all of a sudden the gun thugs got real aggressive.

The only thing that ends the strike, is when a gun thug kills a kid, and the town is about to go to war in response, and instead the company finally signs the contract to keep Harlen County from becoming a war zone.

 

Were the blocking the freedom of owners and new workers from earning a living though? These types of behaviors breed conflict everywhere practiced. But I will check it out and get back to you. If they aren't blocking the gates...

 

They are.

Employees who don't like the working conditions or wages have the freedom to seek new employment elsewhere. Try reading the Thirteenth Amendment sometime.

A "right"? No, they're owed what they've contractually agreed to, be it written or verbal, and that isn't a "right", it's how capitalism works. You do a day's work, you get a day's pay. You don't work, you don't get paid. It's so not complicated even coal miners should be able to figure it out.

So the coal miners can quit.

All the coal miners can quit.

They have the freedom to do so.

They can even wear out their shoes walking in circles in front of the mine.

BUT, if the coal mining company decides to replace those people who refuse to work with people who want to work, tough noogies for the non-working non-miners wearing out their shoes. They don't have the right to blockade the company...it's not their coal mine. They don't have the right to threaten, to assault the new employees, nor do they have the right to attack their property or families. This is America.

They chose to not work, that's their freedom. Someone else chose to work in their stead. That's their freedom.

The problem usually is that the non-working non-miners suddenly believe that those new people are taking "their" jobs. The reality is that no employee ever "owns" a task, a task is always assigned by the employer...who choses if the position is open and who fills it.

Try to stop making freedom more complicated, it's never complicated.

No.

Management represents the owners of the company, and are often nothing more than hired labor themselves. Labor is labor, hired today, gone tomorrow. Maybe...maybe the company has invested enough time and money training some employees so they're worth more....then they get paid more...and maybe the employees buses tables and washes dishes in the company cafeteria. Most of the time labor is a commodity no different than pork bellies, used and discarded when no longer needed.

People who've worked for a living are aware of this.

Yes, that's where the problem starts, when the goonions get the strange idea they can use force, violence, and intimidation to coerce sovereign citizens to do business exclusively with them. It's a strange idea, and completely un-American.

 

About 40% through and already I see owners saying they dont want to make a deal with the union.
The union people stopped working.
The owners hired replacements.
The union workers instead of going and getting new jobs, are blocking the road intimidating "scabs" with baseball bats, clubs, and knives.

But you see how it is the union already causing the violence? If these were normal workers there would be no issue, if everyone decided they didnt want to work for the offered pay, the business would have no workers and have to hire. Like these people did. But the unions DEMAND money that is not theirs by using intimidation, the media, and children too apparently from what is going on now....will keep you posted. Lol...people complaining how bad the job is and fighting others to keep them from taking it lol...
No one has died yet though, will see when the owners fight back to defend themselves.

 

yes, Bush is a liberal, just not so much as your fave, King Obama, Fascist and Traitor.

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It's a slang term in the gay community for bare-backed anal sex in mobs.

 

Whose problem is that?

Oh, that's right, it's theirs, and only theirs.

 

They do after being shot at on the road in response to this incident.

 

So you can't explain tail risk, after calling me ignorent on economic issues, and have to resort to childish references.

Whose side are you on again, because if i was reading this and forming political opinions for the first time, I would want to be on whatever side you weren't.

 

Watch it again it is free on daily motion. I hear about them being shot at now but they were already striking. If you threaten people at their place of work and the law is no help.... Why don't they just find other jobs? I am watching a movie I think I deserve that answer at least because it is the source of the violence.

 

Anyone want to read this, and see if they can't figure out who the problem is in creating contensious relations between labor and management?

Come to a negotiating table with this attitude, and see where it gets you.

Entitled, temper tantrum throwing child!

 

Of course there isn't.

Goonionism such as you describe is anti-freedom, anti-choice, and proto-fascist.

What American would want that?

Really? All those places that were paying the Mayor more than the minimum wage, with air-conditioning, good cafeteria, health insurance, on-site showers, and the rest, were abusing the poor Mayor? There should have been people on hand to wipe his ass and blow his....nose?

You mean like the successful efforts that had in bringing the owners of Hostess to terms? Or their similar success with Eastern Airlines?

Goonionism raises prices, reduces quality...the Government Motors Company comes to mind....

The libertarian agenda expects each adult to be treated only as a mature adult. Naturally, DemocRATS and goonions aren't mature adults and have no idea how mature adults behave.