The Utter Contradiction Of The Conservative Religion Exemplified:-

I said nothing about a sectarian school. What about those that are not religious. Dems are against those too. I see you have said no more about how raising fatherless children have kept the Blacks in poverty and increased crime, which also keeps them in poverty.

 

I hear Liberals complain all the time about the unequal distribution of wealth and your only answer is to tax the rich more. You have done nothing to fix the school system, or did nothing to keep families together that the War On Poverty tore apart. These are the things that must be fixed to give the poor a chance of getting ahead.But you worry more about a parent putting their kid in a religious school than getting them out of schools they can't learn in. You keep them tied to the welfare system and broken families. Liberals has done more to keep the poor down than anything Conservatives could do.

 

Lets hit on religious schools since you brought it up. What is wrong with a parent sending their child to a religious school if they are only given what every other child is given in money to send a kid to a public school? That parent pays school taxes like everyone else and religious schools are more expensive. If the parent is willing to foot the extra expense out of their own pocket and that school teaches the same courses as a public school, what the hell is your beef with it?

 

We want voucher schools and we don't care about your excuses. Kids should be educated. Education and intelligence determine how much you will make. Watch the Ben Carson story. If you think it depends on who you were born to put it to the test. Let me know why harlem success academy parents always happen to be better then their neighbors kids who didnt win the lotto. Let kids have vouchers. If it does nothing after a generation you can say "I told you so".

 

Sorry they do. In fact the schools in New York spend more per student than most private schools and have worse outcomes. There are dozens of studies available that demonstrate that spending per pupil has almost no bearing on student success. We've tried almost everyhting except the one thing that might have a chance to work. We've done early intervention like head start and found that it works very well right up until the kids hit third grade when every thing they've gained from early intervention has gone down the crapper. CATO, Heritage and even Brookings have studies showing this to be true.

What's the problem? It's obvious if you take an honest look at it. It's he environmen many poor children are being raise in. Mommy's a whore with a drug problem and no education to speak of, the closest thing to a daddy he's ever known is mommy's pimp. Out side of school he never sees a book and the school can't let him take one home because mommy or daddy would sell it for chump change and beat the crap out of him for trying to be better than they are. And please note this isn't just a black thing anymore...

 

*facepalm*

Way to miss the point.

Neither the Dems or Republicans overtly support taking anyone's rights away. 'course the executive branch does in secret, and they do, but they only usually violate the rights of foreigners, not US Citizens (though they now have license to assassinate Americans too). No one is arguing, for example, to take away rights from Black people.

The main point is that Democrats fight for more equality of wealth and the Republicans don't, and the debate is whether that is a good idea.

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Yeah now that I think about it, what I said isn't correct. Social conservatives are (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s.

But in that case the OP is even more wrong because if they're not fighting for any real equality then there's no contradiction.

 

WOW, where to begin. Taxing the rich more works, because they can afford it and because they tend to use more of the government goodies than the poor, and because they are privy to all the deductions that the poor do not get. Where did you think you were going to get the money for the schools, keep families together, give poor a chance, etc.?

I have no qualms with religious schools, as long as parents are paying the bill, have at it.

As to public schools having kids that don't learn, that sounds like a parent problem to me.

As to tied to the welfare system, bring back the factories & jobs Romney sent to China. Make the stock market ripoff illegal. Stop the offshoring of profits. Create jobs programs, free education, free training, apprenticeships, job placements, and most of all a Living wage.

 

Thoughts? You've somehow missed the key difference, between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome, never mind that having more of the latter tends to mean a lower average mean and median production value. Yeah, we have horrible income inequality, but average Joe American makes tens of thousands of dollars more than Average Joe European. Poor Average Joe American, it must suck to makes tens of thousands of dollars more than your counterpart. ^_-

 

Where are you, 1806? The government goodies don't go to the rich - social security, medicare, and medicaid alone are half of government spending and go mostly to working class. Then add in welfare, which the rich don't get. The vast majority of goodies go to the bottom 90%, but the vast majority of taxes are paid by the top 10%.

Just get your facts straight.

 

Please list some of those studies. Most of the ones I've seen show the opposite conclusions.

 

No, he got that opportunity because Nike and Adidas knew they could profit from him being a world class swimmer. It has obviously slipped your attention, despite it being mentioned earlier, so permit me to point out that neither Nike nor Adidas sponsor the best paramedic or the best charity worker. Jobs which actually help and benefit society. No, instead, Nike and Adidas sponsor a guy for moving through a pool of water.

That is the insanity of your religion, bro. In fact, it gets even worse in this particular example, because swimmers only wear trunks when competing. Thus, Phelps got the "opportunity" to make money by publicly endorsing a company's products which were effectively useless to his chosen sport.

 

The title of the thread is problematic. I am not aware that there is a Conservative Religion or a Liberal Religion. I have visited Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Non-denomination church services. I have no idea what you are asserting by your post.

 

What part of Nike and Adidas sell sports wear do you not understand? It was through his own hard work to become a world champion swimmer that Phelps got that gig. They've had Michael Jordan and other sports stars hyping their products because again they sell sports wear. If they sold evening ware or make up they'd hire some model or Hollywood actress. All fof them were celebrities of one sort or the other before they got hired.

 

Yep!! The Pope saw that nonsense and shot it down as well as any person could have.

 

I'm not really a conservative, but meh.

I have no problem with equality, I have a problem with involuntary equality.

I've never made that claim - although I think the left overstates how difficult it is to work your way up the income ladder. The right understates it. My experience has been that you can move into the upper-middle class if you apply yourself, but I'm sure that it differs from person to person.

I've never been a fan of our current system anyway. It's corporatist through and through. It's about as far from free enterprise as I can imagine, without going full retard. Walmart does not operate in a free market. Neither does HSBC. If you want free market buy some tomatoes from your neighbor at the end of the street. To a lesser degree, buy from your local grocer. Those are two easy examples.

 

The worst part of the opening post is that there is nothing inherently contradictory in those statements. I want equality before the law. I want equality of Opportunity. I do not want equality of outcome regardless of input which seems to be the left's position.


Further, you won't find anyone complaining about America's obsession with celebrities than conservative Christians.

 

As other posters have correctly asserted, we are talking about equality of opportunity, not income. Everybody deserves an equal right to be judged on their merits and not on their income, inheritance, social association or celebrity status. Claiming that equality of opportunity can be forced upon you implies that you believe you have some kind of entitlement owed to you for simply existing, and that this entitlement needs to be taken from others.

Possibly some truth to this, but of course the representation of the left in society is not the actual left. It is the false opposite offered by the right so that even in a worst case scenario the corporations still get their own way.

I agree completely. Our system is based on the lie that we have a fair and equal chance to compete.

 

Where is the equal opportunity? College education that has become more and more expensive every year? Good manufacturing jobs being shipped to China and Mexico? Also, if you think people working for minimum wage don't work hard, you're dreaming. I'm from a very poor family and i'm now upper middle class. Let me tell you, getting here was a HUGE challenge and honestly took a lot of luck. The ladders of mobility just aren't as prevalent today.

 

I am not an advocate of equality of opportunity. It's too simplistic. I've never, for example, been a fan of Rawls. I prefer equality under one's right to his person, and the application of his person - the fruits of his labor.

That said, I definitely prefer viewpoints that are opposed to corporate-state collusion, of which yours seems to be one.

 

I think the problem with that viewpoint is that the fruits of someone's labour are directly proportional to the demand for that labour.

Abso-******ned-lutely.

 

Obama wont be in office forever, we will go back to the way were. College costs go up because everyone can go now, whether or not they really should. What happens to prices as demand rises? Exactly.

I never said minimum wage people didnt work hard. I said it doesnt help them to price their job out of existence. Why do "jobs go" to Mexico and China? (We lose no jobs with free trade, but I understand that is the leftist dogma so will play along for today).

 

I don't think I have ever seen a more naive post on PF. You think Obama is the reason our jobs have left? Here's a hint: Google NAFTA, The WTO, and Glass Steagall.

College costs go up because colleges are allowed to charge more, and so many people want to go because thanks to globalization and a race to the bottom in manufacturing, we don't have that many good jobs anymore.

 

First off almost no manufacturng Jobs went to Mexico or China automation eliminated most of them. Jobs that used to take 20 machines and twenty people and the requiste number of ancillaries to keep them in material are now done by two or three people. And they are done better and to closer tolerances and in ten percent of the time per part or less. About the only jobs that have gone overseas is for things like sand castings and forgings. And those almost entirely because the EPA and other regulators have made it all but impossible for Americans to do them for a competitive price.

 

The WTO helps us. How else would we protect our IP?

What do Mexicans do with the dollars we send them?

Everyone is allowed to charge more that hasn't added to costs increases elsewhere. Try again. What happened when they pushed loans and cheap money in the housing market? To prices? Exactly. Besides the average college debt is less then a new car. They can pay it. It would be wrong to make the taxpayers pay it.

What magic time would you like to roll the economy back to? Lets dispel the myth that times were better then, excluding the job killing obamacare and stimulus spending.

 

Oh boy, where to begin.

1) Modern liberals don't want equality of opportunity. They want equality of results. They will claim that they only want equality of opportunity but then insist that if something doesn't produce equal results, then there must not have been equal opportunity to begin with. So what they actually define equality by is the end result. A desire for equality of results is Marxist. Marxism is oppressive and has killed more people than all the world religions combined.

2) This is the basic truth of life in general. And it baffles me why so many people fail to grasp this today. Although perhaps it has to do with our environment being so easy and comfortable today. People will tend to only exert as much effort as their environment demands from them. This is why communist philosophy was not so popular in the early pioneer days of the United States. Because the environment was rough as hell and everyday was a struggle to survive. People were too busy trying to feed and take care of their families to complain about how much more money someone else has. We live in the best time in human history to get rich. There's more opportunity now than ever before. And yet people are lazier now than ever before because they already have so much that they take for granted. If you want to know why only 1,2,3,whatever% of the population has most of the money and why they keep getting richer while everybody else keeps getting poorer, there's your answer. Because those people at the top are the only people who have the drive and the commitment to do what anyone else could do if they'd just follow the same damn blueprint. But most people are not honest with themselves about their own work ethic. They're not honest with themselves about their own daily routine. They're not even honest with themselves about they how they feel. So they see other people doing things and think they couldn't do the same. There is so much free information today readily at our disposal that nobody has an excuse anymore not to be living the life of their dreams. The fact that any of us are complaining about anything speaks volumes about how little we're actually taking advantage of the plethora of opportunities around us everyday. And the only people who will disagree with this will be the very people who are guilty of what I have just explained. The people stuck in low-level consciousness who are not honest with themselves. If you were honest with yourself, you'd already be happy.

3) Look up the Pygmalion Effect if you want to understand why you are already equal and your attitude determines everything in your life.