Conservatives and freedom

Why is it that conservatives keep with the line about them wanting freedom and liberty and somehow liberals don’t? What is this freedom and liberty that conservatives keep talking about? The positions they take on just about any subject doesn’t typically sound very freedom loving.

They don’t want women to have abortions - some don’t even want them to have access to birth control. They seem to greatly hate the non-religious and those of religions other than theirs. Simular with other races and nationalities – like the French, Mexicans, and blacks. They don’t want any program that helps anyone. They exert their right to religion mainly when they want to use their religious crazy ideas to control the lives of others…

In many ways, when I hear a conservative talk about freedom, he, or she, is talking about making everyone else act, believe, and be as he, or she, is.

Being that conservatives tend to be conformists it often seems to me that to a conservative, their greatest freedom, is the freedom to be like everyone else – or at least like everybody in their own group.

Take their obsession with owning guns; what freedom has a gun ever given us? What right has ever been gotten at the end of a barrel? Guns are to scare, to intimidate, to get ones way.

It seems to me that the only freedom conservatives are interested in is in telling everyone else what to do. That is, when it comes to politics, if they don’t have the majority they prefer to do everything they can to run the country into the ground – the grown up version of “if you don’t want to play the way I want, I’m taking my ball and bat and going home”.

 

You do realize you have done nothing but regurgitate talking points spouted by the demagogues of the left correct? How many actual conservatives do you know personally in real life? And not casual acquaintances either.....

 

Rules Of Washington

If it's worth fighting for, it's worth fighting dirty for.

Don't lie, cheat or steal...unnecessarily.

There is always one more son of a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) than you counted on.

An honest answer can get you into a lot of trouble.

The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

Chicken little only has to be right once.

"NO" is only an interim response.

You can't kill a bad idea.

If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.

The truth is a variable.

A porcupine with his quills down in just another fat rodent.

You can agree with any concept or notional future option, in principle, but fight implementation every step of the way.

If you can't counter the argument, leave the meeting.

 

Rather an ironic accusation, seeing the OP is nothing but threadbare leftist cliches, which strongly suggests you couldn't think for yourself to save your life.

 

Only two items were mentioned in the op. One was about trying to
stop murdering babies and the other was about guns.

Instead of talking about Conservatives and Liberals we should be
talking about Collectivism and Liberty. Those who want big central
government are Collectivists. Those who want more Liberty aren't.

 

Conservatives believe in freedom of choice. They believe that almost everyone finds themselves in a position in life that is the sum total of the decisions they made along the way. Freedom to succeed and freedom to fail are each freedoms. Personal responsibility to man up and deal with the consequences of your poor choices without burdening others come along with that freedom. Reaping the fruits of your labor and good decisions is your right.

Conservatives believe that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights. The right to life is one of them. One cannot be a staunch supporter of the founding documents of our country, and agree with putting a human being to death without due process, without being hypocritical.

No conservative I know (and I know a bunch of them) has any problem with women having access to birth control. They have a problem with government forcing someone else to pay for it. If your religious beliefs do not stand in the way of you using abortion pills, I have no problem with you going to buy them and use them, be my guest. If you intend to use the strong arm of government to force ME to buy them for you, then I have a problem with that.

Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion, and the separation of church and state are what sets our system of government apart from all others.

On the contrary, I want everyone to act, and believe what they want to. That is part of freedom too. With the caveat that good decisions bring prosperity and poor decisions bring failure, and the consequences of YOUR decisions are YOUR responsibility.

For instance, if you decide that school is too much of a hassle, and want to put flowers in your hair and hula-hoop at music festivals instead, don't expect me to pay for your food, housing and healthcare. Conversely, if you become a hula-hoop sensation and make a zillion dollars, I want you to keep it and spend it how you see fit. That's freedom, baby.

Conformists only to the extent that we have a framework in this country in which we play. You will get farther in life playing the system than you will by bucking the system. Learn how it works, and you have a distinct advantage.

My guess is, you're younger than 25 years of age, else you would not have made such a ridiculous statement. Every freedom you have was bought FOR YOU by the blood of patriots with their guns. You continue to enjoy those freedoms because of patriots with guns guaranteeing them.

Well sir, the state of politics today is sad. And what you say is true, however, if you cannot see that it is exactly the same on the other side of the aisle, then you are drunken upon the kool-aid. Truth be known, there is not a dime of difference between Democrats and Republicans in that regard. They are ALL scoundrels and charlatans pandering for votes, vilifying their opposition, playing towards the next re-election cycle and constantly pulling at the strings of the media puppet show to keep the dumb-masses entertained and distracted from the real stuff that matters.

Apologies to all for blathering on.... one too many burbons to be posting perhaps. Time for a refill.

 

Except when it comes to women's reproductive rights.

there is no such thing as the right to life as how religious prolifers define the term.

 

Conservatives favor freedom FROM bureaucracy.

 

You paint with a very broad brush.... Good for white-washing a barn, little else.

 

I don't know what your talking about. Most of us aren't against all abortion. We are against using it as a form of birth control, because some people don't use it. We are against late term abortion. What possible reason does a woman have getting an abortion right up to the last trimester, but to save the mother's life? We aren't against birth control. But it only cost about $10.00 for a month's supply. Why is it you people think we should have to pay for a woman's recreational sex? Don't you think people should take some responsibility for their own actions? Why is it your always expecting others to pay things for you?

When you talk about religious hate, how can you rule out Liberals? Post after post goes up on these boards with the Left condemning the religious of almost everything. Maybe I shouldn't say religious, as it is only Christians you put down while sticking up for Islam.

This is the biggest joke you have said yet. No one more than Liberals want to take our freedoms away. You want us unarmed. You want to tell us how big of a drink we can buy.What lunch we can feed our kids in school. You want to do away with much of our Bill of Rights that some old men made up hundreds of years ago. You have taken away the rights of parents to discipline our children. To allow our kids to go to the school of their choice. The President himself has taken upon himself to make appointments without the consent of Congress that was shown to be against the law. You want to force political stations to give equal time to the opposite view. They are trying to force sport teams with Indian names and logos to change it. Will they go after states next, as many have Indian names?

 

If you understand that conservatives believe having a child is almost always a good thing, even if it seems like a bad thing at first, and mix in the unborn's right to life, it's not hard to understand the conservative POV on this. There's some things in life that people are never 100% "ready" for that they should still do.

I haven't read the whole thing but I suspect that someone answered this already.

It might surprise you to hear this put another way: the left seems to believe that a Republican congress is obligated to vote for policies they don't want to support. There would be little point in having a democracy if people are required to vote for things they don't agree with.

 

A few more things conservatives oppose that come under freedom;

Stem cell research

Recreational drugs

They also support dictators across the world as long as theyre not Commies or Islamists. And they support Israeli oppression.

They also support the freedom of industry to risk polluting the environment, and expect the taxpayer to foot the bill.

 

You paint with a wide brush. Useful for white-washing barns, little else.

To say 'Conservatives oppose stem cell research.' is disingenuous. Kinda like if I were to say 'Liberals are homosexual.' Just because the majority of those who oppose stem cell research may be conservative does not mean all conservatives oppose stem cell research.

Same goes for recreational drugs. Your vilification of conservatives on these two topics is merely a thinly veiled partisan tactic to try to paint all conservatives as outdated and irrelevant. I don't think it is the place of government to protect people from themselves. Its the freedom of choice thing again. You can pollute your body if you want to, just don't expect me to clean up the mess. Both sides do this; Bloomburg's ban of large sodas come to mind. We have common ground here, get government out of my living room.

Someone once said: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Over and over again we have had the arms we supplied to a "friend du-jour" later turned against us. Is it worth it? I don't know much about foreign policy, so I (like most Americans) have to have faith that our government is doing things that are in our interest. I doubt that they are, but I have no basis to form a truly enlightened opinion. Again, like the above two topics, if your intent is to opine that support for dictators and Israel is limited to conservatives, you are merely playing the 'vilify your opposition game' again.

True Conservatives don't think taxpayers should foot the bill for industry that pollutes, nor do they think industry should be completely deregulated. Just more of the vilification game. They think industry should act responsibly, and if they make a mess, they must clean it up. That said, crony capitalism is a BIG problem, and is far too prevalent in government today (again, both sides of the aisle).

 

Thats like telling me that cons dont oppose gay marriage due to the fact that a minority support it . If I changed it slightly to say most cons oppose stem cell research the charge would be just as damning while remaining accurate.

Interesting, that cons get so upset about limiting soda sizes when so many languish in jail, their lives ruined over recreational drug offences. Soda size limits still alow you to have a large drink of cola - not the same as actual prohitibition.

While not limited to the right, American exceptionalism and its consequences is mainly a right wing effort.

Actually cons oppose the EPA and cap and trade (where industry pays for pollution) - thereby leaving taxpayers to account.

 

CONservatives say they like "freedom" from welfare. But as has been shown through numerous links on this forum, nobody collects more welfare from the government than do these delusional right wingers. They claim to be moral and Christian but it has been conclusively proven that red states use pornography far more than do the blue states. The "freedom" they talk about is what everyone else should not have while they point the finger at everyone else in self righteousness and religious hypocrisy and while collecting welfare at everyone else's expense.

 

Civil rights of African Americans were defended by the barrel of a gun.
http://rare.us/story/when-black-americans-used-the-second-amendment-to-fight-the-ku-klux-klan/

 

Had me in agreement until the anti gun bit. The gun actually gave us our nation and has done.the same for many others. Past there however they are really not a big deal. 99.9% of gun owners have not killed anyone.

 

I find it interesting that some here take objection to the OPs generalization of the right then turn right around and do it themselves to the left. Clue to all: we are all individuals and none of us views all the topics exactly like anyone else, the truth of the matter is most Americans are closer to the center of the political spectrum than towards either end. Yes, there are some rare cases that fit the mold that many use to portray those they consider the opposition, but to claim anyone left or right of center fits one or the other mold shows a clear lack of understanding when it comes to people and who they really are. Ok, back to whatever it was you guys were all doing. Have fun now.

 

The more to the right or left you go, the less free you become (maybe - but in America, it's true). Hardcore conservatives are hardly very freedom loving, with their "thou shalt (not)"s and patriarchal moralizing and religiousness and deference to a police state.

 

I could really pick this apart and point how how dumb it all sounds, but the bold passage above is probably one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

What right have we gotten because of guns? Try all of them.

- - - Updated - - -

So? I assure you the conservatives who oppose handouts also oppose handouts to other conservatives.

 

OP is obviously wholly ignorant of that conservatives isn't the same thing as the religious right.

 

Which leader is it that spouts what I said, as I said it?

 

It gets tiring refuting this same nonsense all the time. No doubt you are referring to the fact that Red states collect more welfare, and thus you conclude that right wingers collect more welfare. This couldnt be further from the truth. People that collect welfare are solidly in the lowest income quintiles. The lowest income quintiles vote Democrat by overwhelming margins in EVERY STATE IN THE UNION, there are no states that are an exception. Logic would tell you this of course, but by using overly vague information ( pretending that a red state is 100% red), you are able to falsely imply that right wingers collect more welfare. The genesis of this misconception is that you yourself are purposefully trying to mislead while knowing better, or you have been duped by someone else trying to mislead with this bit of information, and you havent taken the time to think it through.

 

Seriously now, are you truly that dense? Your entire post is regurgitation of the leftist talking points memo on conservatives. You may have paraphrased it, but it's still vomit, nothing but bile...
Now answer my question, how many conservatives do you know personally and have an actual relationship with?

 

A typical overly simplistic generalization by someone who doesn't think for themselves.

There is more diversity of opinion on most issues by those on the right than those on the left. The left is in lock-step on vitually every issue, not so on the right.

I and many of my friends are conservatives, some are religious, some are not, most are pro-choice even if they are religious, most of them don't care one way or the other about same-gender marriage. All of them value the constitution and the rule of law, and the separation of powers. All of them understand that the constitution is framed to protect citizens from an over-reaching government. All of them understand that voter ID is necessary and not discrimination. All of them deplore political correctness. None of them judge people by their color, but by their behavior. All of them believe government has gotten too big and needs to be restrained. They all believe that capitalism needs some rules, but has provided a better standard of living for more people than any other system ever has or will.

You will not find anyone on the left who dares to disagree with any of the talking points of the left. Everyone on the left believes that more government control is the answer to our problems. Conservatives don't.

Not all conservatives want to tell others how to live their lives, every liberal wants to.