Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

There is no evidence in your posts though. You need to eliminate that thing called pride and just post any evidence you may have discovered

 

Mod edit,,flounder,,2 Now please post some archeological evidence for Israelite ppl from 2000 years ago, thanks

 

Try the Bible Unearthed and follow the footnotes.

 

You need to read.
The term "Israelites" is the English term (derived from the ancient Greek) for the Hebrew biblical term Bnei Yisrael which properly translates as either "Sons of Israel" or "Children of Israel", and refers both to the direct descendants of the patriarch Jacob as well as to the historical populations of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah.[6] In the post-exilic period, beginning in the 5th century BCE, the two known remnants of the Israelite tribes came to be referred to as Jews and Samaritans, inhabiting the territories of Judea, Galilee and Samaria. Other terms sometimes used include the "Hebrews" and the "Twelve Tribes" (of Israel). [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites]

1) Israelites = later Jews
2) The Jews existed 2000 years ago

You could have easily found that out for yourself instead of posting time-wasting semantic one-liners.

 

Bendor, the Arabs began migrating out of Arabia over 10,000 years ago in waves because of climate change.. Arabia was once a savannah.. and they had extensive trade relations with Babylon, Egypt, the Indus Valley and Dilmun... so there was commerce, intermarriage and settlement.. Many Bedouin settle in the hills of Canaan.

Have you ever heard of Petra and Madain Saleh?

 

its not semantics though is it, its etymology of a sort. the reason for the short posts are to keep a simple subject simple.

simply put; you will never be able to prove anybody is a descendant of the israelites through genetics because there is no dna of any Israelites to compare with. the only way to tell is through scripture.

 

In #535 you claim “ifs and buts” but provide not an iota of detail, yet YOU demand detail. Major debating style failure!!

In # 536 you ascribe the concept of “undiluted” Palestinian bloodline to me, then ask me about it. I never claimed that the Palestinian bloodline was “undiluted”. You made that up. = Strawman 2. More low quality debating.

In #540 you introduce a series of new topics and ask me for my sense of these. = Strawman 3. Rank bad debating ethics.

In #543 you insert the scripture strawman of the Israelites evolving from Egypt, with no recognition of, nor attempted rebuttal of Finkelsteins evidence to the contrary. You simple ignore it and go and chat to the chaff fellow. You invent a need to prove that Israelites existed 2000 years ago. Why? I can tell you. Red herring. = continuous poor style

In #553 and repeated in #555 you query an Israelite presence 2000 years ago = mega-Strawman 4. You also pluck a Canaanite state 2000 years ago off the man-of-chaff’s head. = I leave you to decide.

In #567 you make the astonishing statement that the Israelite / Canaanite history can only be derived from the scriptures, meaning that you have paid zero heed to any of the verifiable factual references to the contrary (archaeology and genetics), in the process showing you have zero knowledge of how DNA is used in establishing past genetic links.

In #569 you confirm your inability to take in facts.

In #570 you repeat your red herring = strawman n+1.

By #572 even you have run out of new strawmen, and you also reconfirm your inability to even consider archaeology.

# 574 confirms you blindness to evidence, mindlessly repeated in #576, with another irrelevant repetition of an old strawman in # 578

In #581 you reconfirm your total ignorance of the use of DNA is establishing genetic links. "Simply" put describes it perfectly.

Now that is a truly an appalling record. Yours is not debating. You provide no added value. You simply continue to confirm an inability to deal with real facts. Pride has nothing to do with it, just reason and logic. Try them one day. You might find them to be useful.

 

hair samples left behind by Jews at Masada.



skeletons also remained. They can be tested for DNA genetic material.

The skeletons of three Zealots were found in the northern palace: a young man and woman aged approximately 22 and 18 and a child around 11. Beside them, two fragile braids were found along with a comb, sandals of different sizes and scales form the armor of a Roman legionnaire.

http://inhisfootstepsholyland2014.w...da-ein-gedi-qumran-jerusalem-mount-of-olives/

 

so you have no evidence.

thanks anyway.

 

could be anybodies hair, Alexander the not so great? Richard the lionheart? Tarharqa?

 

dude, you're wasting your time with someone who isn't worth it.

 

I accept your comment, Ronstar. Thanks. He is the epitome of Isaiah 44:18

 

Are you insinuating that I, as a reader should tolerate your <hollier than thou> sarcastic sayings on a daily basis ? Why, it seems to me that Isaiah 44:18 should be solely applied to your lowly comments. Your tunnel vision on the subject of Israel is a one way street where you feel free to disparage anyone who stands his ground...

Jonah like many others have something to contribute in this forum... You do not seem to understand that besides your one way street, there are perhaps many other Avenues.?

 

I sometime wonder why the <animus> is in display and why is it necessary.
22 Arab countries have been created for Arab <Self-Determination> and ONE ONLY
in the area of Palestine according to one of the two Mandates handed to the British... 'the Mandate for Palestine' and 'the Mandate for Mesopotamia' = Iraq today...
Soooooooooooooo the Arab Self Determination has been satisfied, Israel received 23% of the Mandate for Palestine after Great Britain yanked 77% of that 'Mandate for Palestine' and gave it to an upstart from the Hejaz by the name of Abdullah.

It is simple it is clear, I do not hear anyone rebelling against 'the Mandate for Mesopotamia' for instance where <the Kurds> were forgotten.

Israel is a member of the UN and no one is going to further subdevide it!

 

Here the best journalist in Israel will confirm and uphold what I stated...

November 29, 2014

Motzei Shabbat (after Shabbat)

&#8220;Kaf Tet B&#8217;November&#8221; is precisely this: the 29th of November.

Sixty seven years ago today, the United Nations General Assembly voted to recommend the division of Palestine west of the Jordan River into a Jewish state and an Arab state.
There are so many lessons to be derived from this historical date that I could not let it pass without mention:

All of the land that the General Assembly recommended be divided was British Mandate land. In 1922, the League of Nations - in accordance with the San Remo Resolution of 1920 &#8211; conferred upon Britain the mandatory responsibility for securing the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.

Actually, the original Mandate for Palestine included all of what is today Jordan, as well. But the British very quickly lopped off all of the land east of the Jordan (77% of Palestine) and, in a bit of political maneuvering, turned it over to Abdullah ibn Hussein of Arabia.




~~~~~~~~~~

The Mandate for Palestine was binding in international law from the time of its establishment at the San Remo Conference.

As Winston Churchill, who was British Secretary of the State for the Colonies, said in 1922:

&#8220;When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance.&#8221;

The Mandate accorded Jews, and only Jews, political right to self-determination on this land; non-Jews were accorded only individual civil rights. &#8220;Close settlement&#8221; of the Jews was to be encouraged everywhere in the land except areas required for public use.

A host of legal documents over the years has testified to the continuing validity of the Mandate. I will note here that Article 80 of the UN Charter verified that the Mandate survived the demise of the League of Nations and persisted as a legal commitment to the Jews.

For more information about the Mandate for Palestine, see:

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm

~~~~~~~~~~

All of the above said, the years from 1922 until 1947 did not proceed according to the vision of the Mandate. This was in good measure because the British &#8211; who as it turned out were considerably less than eager to honor their mandatory responsibility in any event &#8211; found themselves contending with a restive and sometimes violent Arab population within Mandatory Palestine.

Ultimately, the British threw up their hands and informed the UN (the successor to the League of Nations) that it would be turning back the Mandate. At this point the UN General Assembly recommended that Mandatory Palestine be divided. This was Resolution 181. The vote was 33 to 12 with 10 abstentions:




~~~~~~~~~~

In spite of the fact that what was recommended was considerably less than what was to be have been accorded to the Jews under the Mandate &#8211; less than the Jews had a legal right to according to the international accord of the Mandate - there was enormous rejoicing among the Jews of Palestine when the vote was announced.

Palestine Partition - Dancing in the Street
Credit: Zionism-Israel

Why this rejoicing? Because after the interminable grief of Arab hostilities, the international community was setting the stage for Jewish self-determination.

The Jewish community &#8211; represented by the Jewish Agency &#8211; accepted the recommendation; the Arabs states, acting as a bloc, unanimously rejected it.

This is of enormous importance in several regards.

The Resolution required the agreement of both parties in order for there to be a change in the legal status quo. The Mandate land had been accorded to the Jews. Had the Arabs agreed, and concluded a legal accord with the Jews that established a border between the two states, the legal situation would have changed. But this never happened, my friends

Resolution 181, coming as it did from the General Assembly, was ONLY a recommendation and not binding in international law. Legally, the partition did not exist: the land that was in the part of Palestine that had been recommended for an Arab state was still Mandate land.

~~~~~~~~~~

Why did the Arabs refuse? Same story as today. They wanted all of the land, and were not content to officially endorse any Jewish state on any part of the land.

The Arabs sometimes claim today that they have a right to the land that Resolution 181 recommended become an Arab state. This is unmitigated nonsense. They refused it. They could have had it and chose not to take it. There has NEVER been a sovereign Arab state (never mind a &#8220;Palestinian Arab&#8221; state) in Palestine. They have convinced the world otherwise, but they have no claim.

~~~~~~~~~~

It must be made clear that this recommendation did not &#8220;establish&#8221; the state of Israel. It paved the way, and then the Jewish Agency declared the State of Israel on May 14, 1948. The state was declared on the portion of Palestine that Resolution 181 recommended be allocated for a Jewish state. But this does not mean that the Jews had legally relinquished rights to the rest of Palestine.

Within hours of declaring the state, the people of Israel were fighting the War of Independence &#8211; the Arab states vowed to annihilate the new Jewish state. And in point of fact, the Arab attacks had begun with the passage of Resolution 181. The Jews of Palestinian were already thorough immersed in protecting their lives and the portion of the land upon which their community lived and which would be established as their state. That they had not the resources at that point to physically claim all of Palestinian as theirs does not negate their right to claim that land now.

~~~~~~~~~~

The implications for what is going on today are obvious, and I will pick up on this in my next posting.

~~~~~~~~~~

© Arlene Kushner. This material is produced by Arlene Kushner, functioning as an independent journalist. Permission is granted for it to be reproduced only with proper attribution.

If it is reproduced and emphasis is added, the fact that it has been added must be noted.

Please click on the links to have a complete picture of her expose...

 

Then refute my posts instead of just refuting me as a person. It is a forum rule.

 

Was that an attempt to refute my claim that there are many countries, like Palestine, that did not exist as a State with that name in past times? Do you think it was effective? Can even YOU decipher the meaning of what you posted?

 

Your latest "expert", the "best journalist in Israel" is pretty poor, isn't he, HB. Please don't attack me as you usually do - attack my message by refuting the red text with full reference to the exact words of the Mandate.

Pretty poor journalists ... let me rephrase that to "rank bad"

**** To Be Continued ****

 

i am 100% sure that Israel will NEVER rule all of the West Bank, nor will they ever declare Israeli law over all of it.

maybe some of it, but never all of it.

 

Reaching and DEFLECTING... Stay on subject. We were getting along fine before your reappearance... Your contribution here is <doubtful>.

 

First and foremost 'Arlene Kushner' is a lady...
She is the most knowledgeable person than many other including your rambunctious responses. You cannot clip her toe nails nor shine her shoes.

 

Arlene Kushner is very prejudiced.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/arlene-kushner/severely-distorted-thinking-about-the-temple-mount/

 

There is nothing to refute here for the case of Israel is UNIQUE and the case of the Arabs residents in the < LAND OF ISRAEL> trying to take over the remaining 23% allocated to the Jewish people is an exercise in futility from their part, for now we encounter their real reasons... no <deflections> are necessary... We know their goals and their aim is to kill civilians and abduct soldiers.
They tried a few days ago and we caught <THIRTY> of these miserable idiots aspiring for the moment to meet the 72 Virgins (Houris) and boys like Pearls in Muslim Paradise.

A bunch of illiterate bums believing in superstition.

 

Then why did she make so many mistakes - which I outlined in red - which you have yet to refute?
It should be a walk in the park for you if she is so knowledgable. Look forward to seeing it.

 

So the Palestinians are "trying to take over the remaining 23%, are they?
I believe that there are orders of magnitude more evidence to show that a far more obvious reality is that the Israelis are - not just TRYING to - in fact inexorably taking over the remaining 77%.

Do you dispute that?

On that topic, what do you think of the progress on the whole diaspora story. It is certainly shaping up to show that most of the diasporas, right up until today, are voluntary, with the Jews seeking opportunities for trade, commerce and wealth, and not the superstition that they were tossed out of Palestine 2000 years ago.

I think it is time to stitch that fact into this thread, and see if we can form a holistic picture of the Jews longing for their homeland, and the Palestinians not having any historical rights to it. The whole deal is falling into place, especially since you Zionist-supporters have been unable to:

1) Refute the fact that most modern archaeologists discount the pre-Josiah Biblical narrative as folklore, and concur that the Israelites evolved from upland Palestininan Canaanites, and later absorbed the latter
2) Refute the evidence of the reality of the diasporas, as being mainly voluntary, chasing a better life and commerce
3) Refute the fact that that pretty much applies to 2014
4) Refute the fact that much historical literature (including that of Israel) shows that there were significant conversions between the religions, with the Christians rising to majority in the Byzantine era, and the Muslims gaining prominence after that
5) Refute that the continuous presence of the Jews in the Holy Land was a thin weak minority thread from the middle ages onwards
6) Refute that since the the 6th C there has been no evidence for mass immigration or transfer into Palestine, nor mass genocide of the indigenous peoples.