Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

our dna is 99.9 % identical if you are who you say you are.

 

Wrong. I don't use any scripture. I give my respect to facts, science, logic and sound reason. The 5 initial books of the Old Testament were documented many centuries after the purported events took place, so they cannot compare.

The Israelite presence in Egypt and the Exodus is no longer believed by any serious modern archaeologists. I know that 'Biblical Archaeology' was the accepted fashion for almost a century, but systematic field work, radiometric dating, and a scope expanded to include regional studies have blown its acceptability to the four winds. I know that this is a massive blow to those with deep religious faith, but for scientists facts trump legends every and any day. See my signature.

 

How are you verifying Israelite presence in the region 2,000 years ago?

 

You originally asked me about 'Ancient Palestinians' and what source of information I used. The first five books of the Bible have been proved to to written centuries after the events and depict legend and fable more than reality. This is by now a well-established archaeological fact. Even the following books are doubtful - no evidence of a mighty Davidian kingdom has been found. I believe it is from about the time of Ezra that the scriptures catch up with current events. From then on the Bible is a relatively reliable source .... I think.

But of course there are many other extra-Biblical sources.

 

how are you verifying the actual existence of any Israelite or Canaanite state 2,000 years ago?

 

Palestine was under Roman rule in 14 CE (2000 years ago). There was no Israelite state then. The Canaanites had by then long been superceded (incorporated) into Israelite society.

 

Got a link to share about that conclusion ? when do they estimate ?

Much sooner than that, the kingdom of Judea for example was proven to have existed before the first exile, if not by logic alone ( where were they exiled from ?) than by Arch finds, read here please:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezekiah

And if that existed why not the Kingdom of Israel and their origins, future finds will prove that as well Im sure.

Indeed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennacherib%27s_Annals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

 

By examining distinctive pottery or the lack of... and Egyptian writings. During the period of the fictional Exodus there were many Canaanite towns in Sinai which was Egyptian.. They were involved in metallurgy, pottery making and mining.. They were protected by Egyptian garrisons and paid tribute to Pharaoh. Several of these towns have been excavated in situ and according to the archeologists they were somewhat sophisticated and well organized.

According to scripture 600,000 able bodied men with their families and herds left Egypt... That would be roughly 2 million people.. or HALF of the population of Egypt.. You would think that the Egyptians would have noticed.

 

But an Egyptian scrpit proves there was such a ppl called Israel more than 3,000 years ago :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

That and other finds I posted in 557 prove Israeli presence, there is myth in the Bible and there are facts as well.

 

The stele refers to something.. not necessarily Israel.. could just be a family.

The text is largely an account of Merneptah's victory over the Libyans and their allies, but the last 3 of the 28 lines deal with a separate campaign in Canaan, then part of Egypt's imperial possessions.

While alternative translations have been put forward, the majority of biblical archeologists translate a set of hieroglyphs on Line 27 as "Israel", such that it represents the first documented instance of the name Israel in the historical record,[2] and the only mention in Ancient Egypt.[3] As a result, some consider the stele to be Flinders Petrie's most famous discovery,[4] an opinion with which Petrie himself concurred.[5]

could be Jezreel .........

 

Most scholars agree it stands for a nation - not a family, should have been some family if the Pharoh decided to mention them in his victory stele...., the Jezreel vally is not accepted by most because it talks about a nation, in just the same way it mentions other nations in that stele.

How about the records on the kingdom of Judea at 700 BC ? does that prove Israeli presence ?

 

Here's what it says.. Does it mean that Israel is the only presence in Canaan?

The princes are prostrate, saying, "Peace!"
Not one is raising his head among the Nine Bows.
Now that Tehenu (Libya) has come to ruin,
Hatti is pacified;
The Canaan has been plundered into every sort of woe:
Ashkelon has been overcome;
Gezer has been captured;
Yano'am is made non-existent.
Israel is laid waste and his seed is not;
Hurru is become a widow because of Egypt.

 

No.....why "only", it doesnt mean it was the only presence there, it means they were nomadic ppl at the time without a city state as others had, read what the scholars said.

Like I mentioned there is more proof about Judea in 700 BC, the kingdom is not debated.

 

Yep.. you are probably right.. I just find the relationship between nomadic people and towns (settled people) to be really interesting because the nomads need grain and townies need meat and skins.

 

Not correct... Just sold them Cedar wood to build the temple, King Hiram did not build the temple ... big difference

 

There has been much published, Gilos. The most well known by the general public is Prof Israel Finkelstein’s “The Bible Unearthd”, but that dates back to 2001, and much progress has been made with radiometric dating since then. So I recommend to you Finkelstein’s 2013 book instead - https://www.sbl-site.org/assets/pdfs/pubs/9781589839106_OA.pdf

Part 2 of your question: The Israelites emerged as a monotheistic sect in Canaanite society in the late-Bronze age (see the wave of new settlements (early Israel) mentioned on page 22), i.e. approximately 1100 BCE.

Indeed, you are correct, it must have been before Ezra. Nonetheless, the recording of “real-time” history started well after Solomon’s reign. Modern archaeology places the writing of Deuteronomy up to Kings (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Judges#The_Deuteronomistic_history) as having ben undertaken during the Exile (see - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(united_monarchy)#Archaeological_record )

So I would not just take the reign of Hezekiah as a marker of biblical accuracy.

Agreed. But, as discussed above, the evidence for the Kingdom is a lot more modest than that depicted in the Bible - a Kingdom of folk heroes?

I do not believe that anyone disputes David as a significant leader of the Israelites. What modern archaeology unfortunately shows is that there is no evidence for the great and glorious kingdom as depicted in the Bible. And regarding that being proved in the future …. well, the trend over the past 15 years looks decidedly bleak for such an outcome. See Tubb above.

 

How did you reach the conclusion that Canaanites states existed back then ? Same for their so called brothers the Israelites if you don't use scripture. What other source for these two ppl have you consulted is what I'm reaching at?

 

Read it again...

- - - Updated - - -

Archeology .. and that has already been explained to you.

 

What are his primary sources for the existence of Israelites ?

 

You mean Egyptian scriptures. How do you know egypts scripts aren't fairy tales?

 

No .. I mean ARCHEOLOGY...

The Moses story could also be the story of Sinuhe.. which was a very popular Egyptian romantic novel a thousand years before the Exodus tale,

 

What archeology proves Israelites were a ppl?

 

You have Finkelsteins references in this thread. I suggest that you read them yourself.

 

There is no evidence provided hence why iasked again. Can you, in your own words explain for us how any such "evidence" proves the Israelites existed. Is it the egyptian scriptures you refer to? if it is so plain and obvious then you should be able to show us and not have us rely on reading whole entire volumes of work composed by an israeli historian.

 

You need to read the provided references more carefully. They provide ample evidence of the existence of the Israelites. I repeat ... AMPLE. Yes, to gain knowledge you really do need to READ the facts .... yourself, and not to rely on others to premasticate the detail for you.

Sorry if this is too difficult for you. If I were you with your inability to read and focus on detail, I would give up. You are doomed to fail in acquiring new knowledge.