LA police shoot dead homeless vagrant

Then its quite easiy for terror groups to join USA ? is not it ?

 

the man had nothing to live for, was probably a drug addict or dropout no point in posting stupid matters that everyone will forget in probably the next week

 

Make your own. Our revolutionaries made bullets out of lead chess pieces.

Damn, I can clearly see you're going to need some better leadership before you take on the American government.

 

It clearly shows nothing of the sort

I think it wise
to wait until there are a few more stones are turned over in this case .

But that there is a growing problem with the trajectory of Police Brutality
is beyond dispute - to all but the most Willfully Ignorant of Sheep

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I looked but I didn't see that.

 

Liberal progressives hire these LAPD "nutters."

Law enforcement standards have been dumbed down in the name of political correctness and diversity.

The past three LAPD Chief of Police were progressive law enforcement. Instead of proactive law enforcement we have reactive law enforcement, reacting after a crime has already been committed. That's what the political left wants.

The entire Los Angeles City Council is made up of liberals.

 

What we clearly need is a stun setting on our phasers.

Maybe cops shouldn't HAVE guns. Before you all start screaming let's notice that the London police famously didn't have them for several years, and that lots of Security guards still don't. Do you really feel safer because Mallcop Marty now has a Glock? I've talked to more than one cop who says that the gun they carry seems to escalate the situation far more often than it calms.

In some foreign countries (France frex) you have what seems two levels of police. One, called flics, (though not to their face) don't seem armed, the others, Gendarmes, are obviously more highly trained, even paramilitary, and definitely have guns.

I can't help but think that most of the rising tide of violence in this country is nothing more than good salesmanship by the gun manufacturers. They say we need guns to defend ourselves and then point out how much more we need guns because so many people are shooting others. They've convinced us that guns are the answer, and we didn't even know there was a question.

 

This is an interesting observation. If the police did not carry guns, they would still be able to accomplish most of their routine work. The only difference would be that they would not be able to apprehend serious criminals. But, by the same token, serious criminals would also have no reason to shoot the police dead. It might make it safer for the police officers themselves, in many instances.

Many crimes, that are really rather minor, are drastically over punished. That's a big part of the problem. If two armed police officers approach a criminal, and the criminal fears a 30 year prison sentence if caught, the criminal might just immediately shoot both of them dead to avoid the risk, even though the criminal is not the type who really wants to kill anyone.

The downside is if something really bad happens, like a bank robbery or shooting spree (even though these rarely ever happen), the police closest to the incident would not be able to respond, and it would take a longer time for special police to arrive.

 

This is the real reason California has such terrible financial problems. The state is constantly having to pay out expensive wrongful death or police brutality suits.

 

I didn't see the OP video before it was taken down, nor have I followed this story.

All I can say is it's a shame.

I think the man, through no fault of his own, was too crazy to understand what he was doing. And the cops needed to protect themselves and the public.

It's a shame all around but it was a faultless action. What more is there to say?

 

A faultless action? Wake up!

The police are armed and dangerous and shoot to kill. They don't need provocation. And homeless people are targeted.

Here is another clip of the same incident.

[video=youtube;4_7RG7wL5V8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_7RG7wL5V8[/video]

And another homeless man shot and killed. This time in the back with an assault rifle. He had turned his back on the cops and was walking away.

[video=youtube;JwytoxMuk4U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U[/video]

How about this. Another homeless man shot 45 times by six cops. He never got closer to them than 15-20 yards.

[video=youtube;lU2t0d20mQQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU2t0d20mQQ[/video]

Yes, all of them were faultless actions.

If outright murder by armed cops against homeless men is legal.

And it seems it now is.

 

Why would a cop be beating your ass unless you deserved it? Yeah that's right, you deserved it. You clearly are up to no good. I've passed hundreds of cops, talked to many. I've never had my ass beaten (in various countries that I have worked). Neither has the vast majority of the American population. If you have a belligerent attitude to the cops, you are immediately under suspicion; you will get further questions. Start resisting - go ahead. I'll hold your coat.

 

It's a crime in the US to be poor, and defenseless.
This is why the cops shoot them.

Or didn't you guys get the memo?

 

I hear what you say.

But it begs the question are officers of the law encouraged to beat and kill citizens who don't bow low to them (because I have yet to see any of these cops being charged with murder)?

I know it's old fashioned of me, but it used to be the case that if you paid someone's wages, they showed a little respect to you - not the other way around.

I guess that if you're homeless, then you've become one of those "useless eaters" (implied in the NSSM 200 - the Kissinger Report) and deserve to die by cop for committing verbal suicide.

 

Considering the amount of cops, and arrests that we have on a yearly basis, reports of police brutality are very low. There will be people who abuse a position of power in any job; some people don't even have to have power to be abusive. Suggesting that cops haven't been charged with murder would indicate that the state has not filed such charges due to lack of evidence, rather than the cops themselves manipulating anything.... and that is quite telling considering the use of mobile cameras (cells, body cams, cctv) is getting wider.

Unfortunately, there are so many people out there that don't show respect to a cop, and would be quite happy to take a cops life to preserve their own way of life, that cops must constantly be on guard.

No idea what was happening to instigate the cops intervention with the homeless guy, but I don't think there was any evidence that he deserved to die.

 

Well, like I was saying, it's a shame.

The mentally ill homeless people don't understand that what they're doing is wrong. They are addled.

It's no use saying don't mess with the cops either because they aren't perceiving things normally and rationally.

Personally I think any mentally ill person is LUCKY when they survive an encounter with police. And that's not a rat out of the police, merely an observation that it's nearly impossible to follow orders when you're mentally compromised.

And then appropriate steps must be taken in the interest of public good and safety.

 

In many cases it suggests an unwillingness on the part of the state to prosecute cops. You'll have to reach your own conclusions why that is.

I've watched some truly harrowing footage of police brutality (the below is just some - and please ignore most of the rhetoric embedded in the vids, it's excessive and there's no need for it, the footage tells the story).

[video=youtube;IGG0YkFecF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGG0YkFecF4[/video]

It hardly need mentioning that in almost every case of the above footage that unlawful force was used. There are pages and pages of Youtube clips like this.

And who believes the senior cop in the tv briefing who says the guy shot dead holding a water-hose attachment used a standard weaver stance to do his watering? I have difficulty with that - it sounds like after the event justification cooked up for the media to avoid elevating the matter to an investigation.

I've listened to former cops in such cases fighting for charges to be brought against former fellow officer and being ignored. I have had friends who are cops. They do protect each other even when that means fabricating evidence, surreptitiously tossing down a throw away to cover their asses and so on.

Unfortunately, there are so many people out there that don't show respect to a cop, and would be quite happy to take a cops life to preserve their own way of life, that cops must constantly be on guard. [/quote]

For me it's about justice and not simply respect (as I said, I'm old fashioned). How can you respect men who do these sorts of things to other humans on a whim --- homeless people, mentally ill and other unfortunates etc. Respect has to be earned; it is not a given right just because you have a gun, taser or pepper spray on your hip, or know how to beat or choke someone to death because you've had a bad day and are pissed.

 

We see what we want to see in videos. If you start off with the premises that the police shot the homeless man for no reason, that is what you will see.

What I saw is the suspect while on the ground struggling with the officers and the man forcibly grabbed one of the officers' holstered pistols leading to them yelling at him to drop the gun.

Then the shots are fired.

They are trained to kill once they suspect someone has a gun. Its a split second to die once someone puts their hand on an officer's gun. They do not jump on top because that could get them all shot in the confusion. They are taught to step back and shoot.

You may not like their training, you may not understand it, but if you start off with the premises they were wrong and brutal, that is what you will see.

What I saw is a mentally ill man probably panicking and incompetent to understand many things.

Some of you will make up and apply motives such as brutality, picking on the poor, racism, etc.

It was in fact someone being apprehended suspected of a bank robbery who happens to be a street vagrant and mentally ill as well.

Its not easy trying to apprehend let alone question the mentally ill suspected of committing crimes.

Its easy in hindsight to think you would know what to do.

The police camera on the officer shows the man grabbing for his gun.

Its unfortunate. Its unfortunate to see anyone die.

Its also unfortunate some will use this tragedy as a political excuse and opportunity to push their own partisan agendas.

Do police have sufficient and proper training to deal with the mentally ill?

Are police insensitive to the mentally ill?

Those are legitimate questions to ask and you can remove the words mentally ill and use the word minority, disabled,homeless.All legitimate questions.

But can you discuss such issues without making the assumption and conclusion that what these officers did was wrong?

Can you?

When I say you I mean me too. We all need to challenge ourselves to remain neutral until the facts are in.

People have already made up their minds. It's what happens with police. We are as prejudice against their uniform as we are about the mentally ill, the disabled, the homeless,visible minorities. In the name of fighting discrimination against those peoples, we engage in it against police. Seems illogical to me.Seems we should use the same standard for all and in the case of police
be careful to analyze what happens to learn from it what can be better done next time.

Its kind of hard to do that when you shut down and stop analyzing and simply demonize police without talking about it in non emotional terms.

I do respect however the opinions on this thread I disagree with.

I understand everytime there is a police shooting, people can lump them all in one category.

I feel sorry for the dead man and his family but do not ask me to condemn the police without further analysis.

 

Mistakes DO get made, and of course there will be an element to support your peers/team if they try to suggest to the team that there was no mistake ("he was definitely using the weaver, honestly"). I see no problem with that, without any evidence to the contrary; it's human nature. If specific cops lie (as people will do in any job where they make mistakes), then these can't be covered up if using body cams. Still, I'd wager it's a very small amount of cops that use excessive force or don't own up to mistakes which makes it difficult for me to comment on the force as a whole with these sort of issues.

 

I don't entirely buy into that premise. You see what you see. Sure, some people blow it out of all proportion, I agree...

I didn't see that and I looked carefully. I heard the cop shout about it, but I didn't see it (but see further down in this reply).

So, what you're saying in effect is that the vagrant walking away who was shot in the back; the other vagrant in the parking lot 15 yards away from 6 armed cops - and numerous other beatings and killings were unlawful killings? I agree.

I saw that too. Why didn't they with all their training?

It happens, I'm sure. But some of us see brutality and racially motivated thuggery and recognize it for what it is, too. The bully inside each one of us has broken free and run rampage.

Okay, I'm listening. Evidence? Pity the suspect will never be able to defend himself on these charges though...

Aren't foresight, rational judgement, and cool-headedness skills cops are supposed to possess? In the clip it looked easier for the cop just to shoot him than try to restrain him?

So the footage I posted wasn't where you saw when you said the guy on the ground "forcibly grabbed one of the officers holstered pistols." What you're watching is the police camera. Different camera, different footage, right? But the evidence for this different footage is where?

I have a partisan agenda. I like to call it simple old fashioned justice. And please, I've now posted four different Youtube videos, so we should be discussing them too. I get confused when someone avoids other evidence in a thread.

I'll wait for the other footage you've discussed before reaching a final decision on this one event. If it shows what you say then I'm happy to confirm that here.

But there's plenty of other events that are not so simply brushed aside are there.

I agree that our world is riddled with prejudice. But as eloquent as your argument seems, there is a problem. Cops have a higher responsibility requirement as upholders of the law and he people have signed up to a social pact with that in mind. When justice isn't seen to be served, as in numerous cases I've posted here, the populace increasingly mistrust the police and grow more bitter about injustice. It makes for a fragile and potentially explosive citizenry.

As do I, and I also appreciate the measured way you have responded, even though I am at variancer with a lot of your analysis.

[/QUOTE]

 

Like you, I rely on evidence to reach judgements. Can you demonstrate he was using the weaver?

Yep, I agree with that. Lying is a fact of life. But I am a cynic. Smart people find smart ways to purify themselves. Like any evidence tampering, body cams can be manipulated -- and/or faulty. As you say it's human nature.

You guys are good. But I have a question. Are you public affairs specialists or operate in that sort of arena? I think maybe you are.

I'm an old dog and I've been around. You both are very measured and factual. From your previous posts you clearly have access to information that has not been provided here. You're diffusing emotions; taking anger and steam out of the debate - which I have no problem with either. Measured and factual works for me. Especially factual.

An old friend of mine, not a cop but very smart, very intelligent, very insightful, now does public affairs for a British police force. I've heard him many times in private wail in frustration at what he has to do - all the *spinning* - just to keep his job. And as you know very few Brit cops carry firearms at all; the strains and pressures are different.

 

Yea.

Sit around and ask questions . . . or unify. So far members here are mentally and spiritually disabled from doing the only thing that will matter, eventually. That is to unify around constitutional intent. It is the only thing that will matter because it makes us "the masters of the congress and the courts".

Here, you can see the disability of Americans, or the effect of covert manipulations by covert agents diluting and confusing forum users with unless information and disgusting divisive attitudes.

http://www.politicalforum.com/opini...assure-info-vital-life-shared-understood.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...privation-right-prevent-my-free-speech-6.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...ons-free-speech-inadequate-retain-rights.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...free-speech-choosing-limits-over-purpose.html

 

Oh quit your bizarre sniveling and DO SOMETHING! Something easy and demonstrative of your humanness.



Uh, well maybe that's just an avatar and you really are human.

All that it take to end this repetitive tragedy is unity. One alien, uh human agreeing that free speech actually has a purpose. Yea, our first amendment right to free speech actually has a purpose, imagine that.

That purpose is to enable unity adequate to alter or abolish government destructive to our unalienable rights.

Try any of these threads.

http://www.politicalforum.com/opini...assure-info-vital-life-shared-understood.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...privation-right-prevent-my-free-speech-6.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...ons-free-speech-inadequate-retain-rights.html

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...free-speech-choosing-limits-over-purpose.html

 

So wtf is with the accountability issue at this forum? I mean Eadora is all bizarre texted out about these abuses but cannot discuss doing something about it.

This is the most common behavior here. Something is wrong with this place. A bunch of whiners and snivelers that pretend to care, then refuse to discuss core issues let alone taking some action. WEIRD.

 

And the truth is even worse. The U.S police force together with the FBI has been covering up the real number of people killed by the U.S police force for years.

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government
As Obama calls for better data and Justice Department exposes Ferguson, trusted FBI count of ‘justifiable homicides’ omits 545 people per year in study
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/04/police-killed-people-fbi-data-justifiable-homicides

What's next? Police Death squads on the streets of America getting rid of homeless ever rising homeless population?