Far-right activists detained at UK border before Britain First rally

Whatever you say liberal, have a nice life.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_banned_from_entering_the_United_Kingdom

 

I think it is very important to be upfront about Fascism. Obviously the haters are just the foot soldiers and possibly they support it. I guess with some it will be ignorance and others possibly do support which is why they do not want it named.

Here is a simple video about what fascism is. He begins

I so remember in my childhood the scrutiny there was not to allow monopolies. Of course people then remembered fascism first hand.

Here is the video

 

I think you might be accidentally equivocating here. The American right-wing "support" for "corporations" is very different from the corporatism of 19th and 20th century Europe. Corporatism in Europe was a deeply left-wing socialistic ideology. Right-wingers in Germany would joke about Hitler's "prolet-Aryanism."

Fascism wasn't the "merger of Corporate and state power", it was the complete subservience of the entire economy to the state, or else. They didn't care who got rich or didn't get rich, they cared that the businessmen of Germany did what they wanted.

EDIT: "Little tinge" of nationalism, lol. Is this person a political scientist?

 

You have a strange idea about what the Magna Carta was about and who it served


http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/al-qaeda-vs-magna-carta

That being said I am well aware that some people do not approve of the banning of people for any reason. That is not what the thread was about. It was about the reality that the current incitement to hatred against Muslims will not be limited to Muslims. That ought to be obvious. Once people get off in this way they do not stop at one. I was particularly pointing out that the people who have been denied entry to Britain were known antisemites and questioning whether it makes any difference to those encouraging intolerance and/or violence against Muslims realising this. Does it for instance make any difference to you that Jews, as seen in the OP, may very well face a similar fate once if it all got going, if as some hoped at the alt right site I visited yesterday the terror attack on British Muslims earlier this week was it getting started.

 

The Visigoth had their 1st kingdom somewhere in 400 AD. The Muslims came in 700 AD and hold on it for centuries. So I can't say it Christian had dibs on it. And when it than became Christian again, they immediately religiously purged it. From not just muslims, but also Jews.... like the best of ISIS terrorists.

 

And the Romans for some centuries prior.

Not sure why this is an important conversation to have here.

I'm not sure that "dibs" is a meaningful historical or geopolitical force.

Right. Remember that this strand of the conversation started when I pointed out that the Spaniards, today, are some of the most anti-Islamic people on the continent.

 

The US is known at the moment to be a Plutocracy. A Plutocracy is rule by the most wealthy. You do not see that your Government is subservient to neo liberalism and Corporate Power, that it serves them not 'you the people'?. Due to this most people appear to believe that whether you have a Democratic or a Republican Government you are moving towards fascism. You have all the other background, particularly in the power of your Christian Right which again is where most people believe the ideology for American fascism will come from. They think the Democrats will end up there by mistake but unless they start recognising and being prepared to say things as they are that is where you are moving. From what I hear no two fascist states are identical but as far as I can see you guys are racing there.

Listen to the video. He has a sense of humour. It is mainly on Wallace and I liked it because it put things simply.

 

I like the term "Vetocracy" better.

I thought we were talking about Fascism and/or Corporatism.

Trying to conflate the American political system with either of those will get you nowhere. Whatever power moneyed interests have in the US, their power is secondary to ideas. Trump didn't win because the moneyed interests got behind him, he won because his ideas appealed to that part of the electoral system they needed to in order for him to win.

I too believe that the United States needs substantial political reform, but trying to pass American right-wingers off as "Fascists" is intellectually dishonest at best, and just plain dishonest at worst.

Assuming you're from the UK, I believe that you are in more trouble than we. What's the percentage of your Muslim population? Not even 5%. And this is a political problem that threatens to tear you apart? I think that right-wing terrorism in Europe will continue to get worse.

 

well thanks for the new word but I disagree. Even if it is that as well and you will know that better than me, it like most Western Capitalist societies is a plutocracy.

Very true and those ideas are pushing you to fascism.

Yes, of course. People will have voted for many reasons. However the reality is that that is the direction the US is moving under the ideas which are gaining in influence and the particular issues you face. Lowering of living standards among the wwc in particular, change in demography and a tiny amount of terrorism blown out of all proportion. Trump certainly stuck with certain fascist ways, his dislike of Institutions, him appearing to see globalisation as having a 'face' being the mexicans, the chinese, muslims and so on - an enemy outside to be defeated rather than something which needed to be faced and rectified. The dislike of facts which has come over your country being another and of course the hatred of experts. With respect to the courts, the Christian Right have a strong place there now ..... Some political theorists, for instance John Keane, believe the west has already moved or is moving into a new kind of despotism.

The antidote is genuine democracy.

Probably have more likelihood of terrorism but the hatred of Muslims, the work on creating that has come from your good selves.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/religion/reports/2011/08/26/10165/fear-inc/

I was concerned about the UK moving in that direction but far less than I was before. Most of our white extremist groups are small and particularly since the last election the mood has changed. Hopefully we can move in a more people friendly, democratic direction.

 

This hate preacher is Polish, which is why he was detained. Previously, the American far-right blogger was refused entry to the UK and she planned to speak at an EDL rally.

 

No. Christianity only became dominant in the Roman empire around 350, before 300 it had its risks.

It is also fanatically catholic

 

I think you and I are having two different conversations.

Great! So we agree.

 

I feel sorry for those living in Europe, under repressive regimes that deny basic human rights, such as free speech. Hang in there guys. Someday you will be free.

 

I'm certain that's true of many that do not learn from history, including many of our leaders. It's the same school of thought that led to the Gulf oil disaster.

 

It was during the Dark Ages in Europe. The Christian church only took over by default when the Roman Empire collapsed...due in good portion to invading barbarians...similar to what some of us are trying to stave off today. The Christian church was never meant to be an instrument of governmental power the way Islam is.

 

They have actually been pretty hateful to any religion throughout history. Islam is now the first religion that is openly welcomed.

What Charlamagne did to the Pagans made American Indians look like childs play

 

It's not a very long list, and includes Martha Stewart, FGS.

 

quoted wrong comment

 

So now, to prove one is not "racist" one must marry into another ethnic group? Baloney. If you truly believe that you are not worth listening to on any subject.

 

They picked a hill of a time to lower their standards.

 

You guys have it exactly backwards. Hillary was the fascist candidate. She used the identity politics as her cover. Maybe that's what's going on in your country, too.

Methodology evolves.

 

What are you learning from history here that you think I'm not?

 

The tendency of elites to oversimplify in order to make the leadership task easier.

 

Trying to connect this to the Islamic conquest of Spain or the Inquisition. It's not coming together for me.

Want to explain?