The Bible is Completely Unreliable

You really keep missing the point.

1 - every parent gets the govt "subsidy", rich and poor.
2 - the subsidy goes to the school the parent selects.
3 - I do not want all schools to perform religious indoctrination (that is what is banned by the 1st amendment).
4 - schools should be able to educate about religion, look up comparative religion.
5 - I home school. I have a 7 year old (thats normally 1st grade) who the state tested to be at the 5th grade level in math and reading, all other subjects were 3rd or 4th grade. I'm better at educating my child then the public schools.

 

I am not quite sure what you mean here.

I do not believe, either, that our minds are "supernaturally influenced."

Why would you imagine that I do?

 

As you just said, those are Catholic schools. The comment was about teaching the Bible in public schools. The Protestants have always wanted to do it. The Catholics have always been against it. That's why they have Catholic schools.

 

I fully understood these points from the several posts you wrote. You were plenty clear.

And, your very clear statement here does not affect what I said in any way.

Again, middle class and below parents can not make up the difference between the subsidy you propose and the actual cost of middle school and high school. So, your idea cuts out those without significant income to spend on education.

Again, having more people with enough money to pay private not for profit middle and high school tuition is unlikely to cause any significant number of schools to fill that capacity. As an example, I pointed out that middle and high school here in Seattle is in excess of $20K. At that price, there are wait lists at every school (people getting turned away), yet no new schools are appearing. So, increasing the demand isn't likely to change the supply, at least at the $20K price point. And, you know what I'll say about increasing tuition!

I think your complaint on 3 & 4 is probably specific to your school, because outside of declaring a specific religion as "better" or "worse" or "untrue", schools can teach morality, ethics, and comparative religion. Are things actually better than you think? I suspect so.

I'm fine with you home schooling. I'm not worried about what you teach your kid in the k-6 range. I hope you are providing serious socialization that includes having kids work together toward a shared objective.

My hard line is that I want good schools for EVERY kid. And, so far having quality public schools everywhere appears to be the only way of providing that.

There are LOTS of ways to have great schools for kids with rich parents who are smart enough to care about education.

 

It says the earth is flat. ("The circle of the earth.") Will that do?

 

Is that precisely what it said in the original text, including the implication of flatness?

Too many people read the English versions that have been translated over and over again.

Taking the English and then extrapolating like you are doing is ridiculous.

 

Again, the costs you use are based on the current system in which public schools have an effective monopoly. Parents don't have a choice unless they want to pay the full cost of private school. They are stuck in the public school system.

Free the parents, and the entire education system will change. Thats what happens in every industry where the govt gets out of the way - space, communications, telephone, GPS.

 

No. First of all I never heard a Protestant say they wanted to have the bible taught in school, and I was born into a Protestant family 70+ years ago. Secondly, if Catholics didn't want the bible and elementary, and secondary education, mixing, they wouldn't bother with Catholic schools. Of course I'm from the northeast, there's no accounting for the bible belt.

 

I thought you said god influenced mans mind, and man wrote the bible under gods influence? If god is influencing man, that's a supernatural influence, isn't it?

pjohns "It is unclear exactly what you mean by "the literal word of [G]od."

I do believe that it is precisely that."

 

The Hebrew word translated as "circle" is "chuwg" pronounced "khoog". It means circle, circuit, or compass.

You must be referring to one of the less reliable translations which attempt to force the bible to say what they thought was good to say in order to save it from sound reasoning.

 

You might as well claim we have nothing to loose by believing in Santa clause. Believing is futile, might as well accept reality and cope with it.

 

I really do not understand just how you get "flat" from a "circle."

The Earth is circular.

 

Perhaps you are saying, "apples"; and I am hearing, "oranges."

I do not believe that God uses His supernatural powers to infiltrate the minds of men (or women).

I do, however, believe that the Bible is the word of God.

 

Yes and I have here a circle drawn on a piece of paper. Is it flat?

The earth is not "circular". It is spherical, .... a ball.

 

Then do you feel that all the contradictions and errors in it are due to humans having "translated" it and having written it accordingly? Or what would be the cause of all those discrepancies?

 

Picky, picky, picky.

(In fact, Dictionary.com--in its second of seven definitions of the word--says it means "of or relating to a circle: a circular plane.")

 

I suppose it would depend upon the "contradictions" and "errors" that you claim to find therein.

Moreover, you should really bear in mind that a comparison of Old Testament teachings vis-a-vis New Testament teachings is inappropriate: Some things that were serious transgressions under the former are not even minor transgressions under the latter. (For instance, the command to "Observe the Sabbath"--one could do no work on the Sabbath; and "work" was very broadly defined--does not apply at all to the New Covenant. In fact, there is no "Sabbath" under the latter. To refer to Sunday as "the Christian Sabbath," as some do, is simply mistaken. It is "The Lord's Day," according to the New Testament--but no sort of "Sabbath.")

 

Who worships the god of the dictionary? The dictionary also defines "God" as "the single deity of various monotheistic religions." I expect that most people who insist "circle" means "sphere" would also object to that definition of god.

 

Since God is described in the bible and by "believers" as "unchanging", that difference supports my position as it is hard evidence of a changing and changed religion.

I suppose discrepancies like...

Matthew 28:1-2: After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
The stone was in place when they arrived, and the angel rolled it back.
----BUT----
Mark 16:4: But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
The stone had already been rolled away upon their arrival, noted also in Luke 24:2 and John 20:1.

and as in.....

Matthew 27:3-8: Then Judas, which had betrayed him (Jesus), when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? See thou to that. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore, that field was called "The Field of Blood" unto this day.
Judas hanged himself
----BUT----
Acts 1:16-19: Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The Field of Blood.
Judas bought a field, fell down and his intestines spilled out.

I suppose discrepancies like this can only be attributed to human error. Or have you another explanation?

 

Translation: We should accept your definition of "circular," rather than the dictionary definition of the word.

 

You didn't post a dictionary definition so I will....

CIRCLE
noun
1.
a closed plane curve consisting of all points at a given distance from a point within it called the center. Equation: x 2 + y 2 = r 2 .
2.
the portion of a plane bounded by such a curve.
3.
any circular or ringlike object, formation, or arrangement:
a circle of dancers.
4.
a ring, circlet, or crown.
5.
the ring of a circus.
6.
a section of seats in a theater:
dress circle.
7.
the area within which something acts, exerts influence, etc.; realm; sphere:
A politician has a wide circle of influence.
8.
a series ending where it began, especially when perpetually repeated; cycle:
the circle of the year.
9.
Logic. an argument ostensibly proving a conclusion but actually assuming the conclusion or its equivalent as a premise; vicious circle.
10.
a complete series forming a connected whole; cycle:
the circle of the sciences.
11.
a number of persons bound by a common tie; coterie:
a literary circle; a family circle.
12.
Government. an administrative division, especially of a province.
13.
Geography. a parallel of latitude.
14.
Astronomy.

1. (formerly) the orbit of a heavenly body.
2. meridian circle.​

15.
Surveying. a glass or metal disk mounted concentrically with the spindle of a theodolite or level and graduated so that the angle at which the alidade is set may be read.​

It is the height of absurdity to claim that "circle" is the same as "sphere".

Now see my next post below. Heh heh heh.

 

Right. Circle means "circle". Do you know what a "plane" is? YOU MADE MY POINT!! THANKS!! And yet you wouldn't give up the nonsense, so now I've acknowledged your confirmation that you unwittingly posted.

 

Well, if he doesn't use some kind of power to infiltrate the mind of man/woman, how do you square it then? Now, I do believe that man has an instinct, if you will, for good. I think it's a leaning that was factored in via the evolutionary process because it's a survival benefit. We live in communities, and that requires an ethical base of some kind. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself and so on.

 

As to the first point, I am not a fundamentalist (as I believe I mentioned earlier); and I really do not believe in the existence of angels. That would be entirely incompatible with a worldview that is entirely guided by rational thinking.

And as the second point, why could Judas have not (1) hanged himself; and (2) then fallen headlong in their midst?

 

Again, Dictionary.com describes "circular--in one definition--as "a circular plane."

Evidently, you view that as an oxymoron.

But the editors of the dictionary do not.

Frankly, I would much rather trust them with the meaning of words...