How Mueller’s First Year Compares To Watergate, Iran-Contra And Whitewater

No I am trying to grasp you into a civil reasoned discussion but you keep running away.

 

No, Downer and Halper's associate, all linked through HAKLUYT , MISFUD did. Who then, AFTER telling Papadopolous the Big Russia/Hillary email Lie, introduced him to longtime Clinton pal Downer, who the young, naïve SET UP Papadopolous then shared the data his ASSOCIATED , MISFUD, CREATED, with the Obama Swamp, as though it was legit intel.


Feel free to keep justifying these glaringly obvious CRIMES......

 

So again you’re saying they knew Russia had hacked the dnc. At least you’re not pretending it was Seth rich anymore. Baby steps.

 

Your obtuse silly POSTS are getting boring.

Misfud telling a LIE to Papadopolous =/= the "Russians hacked Hillary's emails". The people who leaked them, have said from Day One, that IS WAS NOT THE RUSSSIANS who provided them.

You and Thorinc should start a club..you could call it the "Dodgers"...oh...that might be taken...try the "Fact Duckers"....maybe

 

When the indicted Russian company unexpectedly showed up in court, Mueller told the judge they needed more time to figure out what they were charged with. The indicted company that was not even in existence at the time of the (mythical?) crime I don't believe ever did show up for trial. Despite Comey's and Strozk's belief that Flynn did not lie during his "interview," Mueller decided to go ahead and charge him with lying anyway.

 

Both are out looking for criminal activity. Neither are assigned to investigate a crime. You and others think that appointing a special prosecutor with all the resources he wants and can muster to go out and see if he can find a crime somewhere is just dandy. Others see it as it is: a political vendetta using police state tactics.

 

None of the Nixon, Clinton, Reagan, or Bush43 people claimed there was not at least a crime that triggered the special/independent prosecutors.
Mueller's indicting Flynn for lying seems dubious since Strzok and Comey both said they didn't believe he lied. And how about that indicted Russian company that showed up for court completely befuddling Mueller's team who told the judge they needed more time to figure out the charges?

 

So if like watergate, he already has the evidence to take trump down? Well, if a bullfrog had wings he would not bump his arse! ha ha. So, a big IF, but this has served his haters very well since mueller was appointed.

But if you wanted to use muller's position to go after people who broke the law, not related to the election, well this fishing expedition has accomplished that. And it could remove on of trump's picks, Flynn. Some say it was dirty tricks the fbi used, but I say that if flynn was not smart enough to know intel had recorded all of his communication, and smart enough to just say he cannot remember, then he didn't need the position trump gave him. Flynn of all people should have known!!

And then of course there is the crook manfort, and his kind are prolific in DC on the side lines. They got him for crimes he committed before he helped trump get through the republican convention. And glad they caught another DC white collar worker. But if you are judging this investigation a success, given its primary original objective, it looks so far to be an utter waste of time and money.

This could change of course. But IMO, that is such a long shot. But yeah, if trump actually broke the law in regards to russia, he deserves to lose his job. If he worked with russia to beat clinton. A great conspiracy. I just think we would have seen something in the way of evidence by now. Someone would have leaked it. For DC is still a sieve when it comes to anything that might hurt trump. That is the reality that I perceive.

 

Well, in reality that is all that these special investigators are. While the one with nixon was probably not politically driven, but everyone since seems to have become just another political weapon to use against a party or a particular person. It is chock full of politics. And mixing politics with law can be such a dangerous thing.

If you need to investigate a president, it should be restricted to just the president and in regards to the crime he is being accused of. When it was allowed to be turned into a fishing expedition for other crimes, involving other people, it becomes political. To damage a new president as much as possible, even when if his people catch charges that has nothing to do with the accusations against trump. Driven by politics. I don't think this serves the nation and her people well at all, but quite the contrary.

 

So this Russia just happened to know Hillary’s emails were going to be released by Wikileaks? And for some unknown reason he wanted team trump to know? And to think it was Russia even though it wasn’t?
This is the stupidest of the conspiracy theories yet

 

There is obviously more to the Flynn thing than we know. Why would he lie if what he did wasn’t illegal?
You don’t find it odd Manafort and his long ties to Russia wanted to work for free on the trump campaign? Then there’s him giving updates to oligarchs....
I think you’re seriously underestimating how much we don’t know yet.

 

Since most of the world's intelligence agences seemed to be aware taht there was unusual activity between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence, and since there is no doubt now that the Russians DID hack the DNC e
-mails (so much for your claim of "lie), then there was every reason for the FBI to investigate.

 

I highly doubt there is more to this flynn deal that we already know. And I don't see your "obviousness" He lied about something he did not have to lie about. Because the only think illegal was his lying. I already said what I think about that.

No, I find nothing odd about manafort working free to help trump get through the republican convention. He has more ties to Ukraine than russia, or so it was reported. He is one of countless americans, including the podesta's who try to make money off of russia and russians. They are capitalists and that is what such people do. There is nothing suspicious about any american doing business with russians, with russia. We are not at war with them and we have been there since the USSR fell. Americans do much more business with communist china, who hacks us and steals intellectual property. Doing business with china does not make one china's puppet. Or treasonous.

The idea that there was some great conpiracy between the trump campaign, and russia, in order to beat clinton is just absurd on the face of it. It looks like it something out of a clancy novel, from the mind of an author.

 

"I think you’re seriously underestimating how much we don’t know yet."

That is the greatest fear in Trumpster world.

So far, not one of their memes or their media has refuted or repudiated a single major fact on the Russian/Trump probe. Not one.

And they have watched as more and more detail emerges in the public space.

Each time, they react the same way. Deny, distort and deflect. Introduce Clinton and Obama into the discussion where ever possible, usually as an attempt to derail the topic.

It's a familiar pattern over the last year and a half.

One thing that is noteworthy in each turn of this wheel, is how Trumpster quietly acknowledge facts that they had previously denied.

Case in point.

Right now, Trumpster media is charging that Papodopolous was set up by the FBI and told a lie that he took to the Trump campaign. Therefore the FBI and the Justice Department was not just investigating shady behavior of a presidential campaign, they were entrapping them in an unlikely scheme to "deligitimize" an election that no one thought Trump would win.

Put aside the fact that this doesn't make any sense, and consider this.

For the Trumpster narrative to be true, they have to concede that Trump campaign officials were interested in and did participate in meetings billed on the premise that the Russians were willing to coordinate with the Trump campaign.

We don't yet have solid proof of any such collusion (I suspect that may be in the records of the conveniently defunct Cambridge Analytica, if the Mueller probe doesn't have it already). Yet.....

But Trumpsters have now tacitly admitted that the Trump campaign liked the idea of collusion with the Russians and actively encouraged contacts along those lines.

After all, if the current Trumpster narrative were true, and the FBI was setting Popadopolous and Page up, the Trump campaign could have reported the suspicious activities of what they believe to be a foriegn government.

But they didn't. In fact, they did the opposite.

 

Funny how the judge didn't dismiss the case against the allegely no existant company!

 

Every single one of them did.

Nixon went on national tv to say " I am not a crook"

Clinton.....seriously????

Reagan took responsibility for what happened right away, so you're right about that.

Bush 43 and Karl Rove launched an entire campaign to smear the man who ended any question about them cooking their case for teh war in Iraq. Scooter Libby went to jail and right wingers still yell that there was "no underlying crime".

Trump won't have that kind of advantage. One thing that the Bushes are extremely good at is plaudible deniability.

Plausible deniability is how George HW and Pointexter and North kept Reagan out of Iran-Contra.

Plausible deniability is what kept Karl Rove and Dick Cheney from being indicted in the Plame case.
.
Trump is not cautious, he plans nothing, and he surrounded himself with wannabes like Page and Papadopolous. They also thought they had nothing to lose. It they lost the election, not one would care. If they won. Trump would be king and could cover anything up. He still thinks he can.

People with no experience in politics, and very questionable ethics and judgement ususally get caught in the plausibile deniability trap. The cover up is always what undoes the bad guys.

And as you can see from the right wing's ever evolving noise, plausibile deniability will not save these guys when the times comes

 

I agree that the other special prosecutors were in large part politically driven. But at least the others had an original crime as justification. Another hazard generally fro all prosecutions is that prosecutors are driven to prosecute and convict; searching for the truth is just a side show. This was especially true with Fitzgerald in the Plame case. There was also politics in the Nixon case. Leon Jaworski struggled hard to figure out how he could turn over his findings to the House to help along the impeachment movement.
I agree the Mueller investigation does not serve the presidency, the country, or most of the people.

 

Nothing you say, except the first false statement, refutes my statement that no one said there was not an original crime behind the investigations. For example, Nixon never denied there was a criminal break-in at the Democrat office in the Watergate complex.

 

And as long as these investigators are given a fishing expedition, it will remain political. Why would this ever be done in the first place? If the DOJ has sufficient evidence that makes it look like a crime was committed, then by all means investigate that. But giving the investigator the power of a fishing expedition is only done in the case of special investigations at that level. So there is much more concern than whether a president committed a crime, a specific crime, as this can become a tool driven by party politics or even permanent gov't politics. A way to handcuff a president to keep him from governing as specifically as he wants to do. And not to mention the midterm elections. It has become just another tool to win seats for the opposition party, even if nothing is ever found in regards to the original suspicion.

That it flies in the face of our normal justice system, able to operate beyond that system just isn't a good thing, IMO.

 

So what? Watergate has nothing to do with this and from what we are learning was NOTHING compared to what the Obama administration was involved in and the abuse of powers that occurred.

 

What that Left/Democrats/MSM/Progressives refuse to acknowledge that in Watergate and Whitewater and Lewinsky there were ACTUAL CRIMES that had been committed, those investigations weren't LOOKING for crimes they had crimes at hand. There is STILL no evidence of a crime committed by the Trump campaign or administration the Mueller team is looking for a crime not investigating one to do with Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.

 

huh?

when did comeny and strozk claim to belief flynn didnt lie? This was news I missed completely. Please provide a link to source.

 

I don't know why you think he has talked to everyone or that all suspects are completely cooperating when you don't have confidential access to the case. The fact that he is using other crimes to try to get people to talk means that there is a lack of cooperation because that is when this tactic is used by law enforcement. Law enforcement when investigating a suspected gang for example will find dirt of suspected members of the gang and then offer reduced sentences to get them to provide intelligence that can be used to take down the gang and if they don't have this power then they can't property do their jobs. If they can't do this then all the members of the conspiracy have to do is not talk and nothing every happens.

The way I see it, if the Trump associates didn't commit fraud with the Russians and were following the law they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place and fraudsters going to jail is better than nothing. If you want to investigation to be wrapped up more quickly maybe Mueller should be provided more man-power and Muller's team should be required to provide more regular updates on their progress and any explanation for the delay but remember that investigations in the past can take years. Republicans investigated Benghazi for 4 years and you weren't complaining about that. This investigation is a good thing for Trump if he is innocent because this Russia collusion thing has been hanging over his head and if the matter hasn't been fully investigated we will never truly know whether Trump broke the law.

 

Yea, unusual activity....

As I wrote:

That's the problem when posters tone and words imply absolute authority on a subject. Considering the error, and given the subject, that's pretty egregious.​

 

or, as Judge Ellis stated, compose intelligence. You are aware I assume that nobody under interrogation by law enforcement has to say one word.

The normal judicial process to determine if a person has broken the law is to have a broken law -- a crime -- to begin with. There was no "seed" crime for Mueller's investigation. Are you prepared to succumb to Mueller's watchful eye? After all that would be the only way we would know if you broke the law r not.