The Hidden Tribes of America and the Need for Compromise

I uphold your right to your disinformed opinion.

 

Oh, Jester, for many, many years I have observed that there is, indeed, a "man behind the curtain" who has exerted dominating, suffocating influence over what REALLY happens to us here in the United States, quite apart from the back-and-forth mummery that, "we, the people" are treated to by the mainstream media. The phrase, "Deep State Government" is merely a convenient, compact way to describe it.

 

Godammit! Yet again Libertarians are excluded.

 

I disagree with the fundamental premises of this post.

1) Liberals want compromise. This is simply not true. To a liberal, compromising means you give him half or 3/4 of the funding that he wants for his pet project. This is not a compromise to a conservative but a complete and abject failure, since conservatives don't want more government projects or more government funding of existing projects, they want fewer projects and less government funding. Since this obviously a zero sum game, i.e., you cannot simultaneously increase and decrease the size of government, there's no way to compromise on this.

2) Liberals are more willing to compromise than conservatives. This is also not true. It is liberals who are cutting conservative family members out of their lives. It is liberals who abandon and shun anyone who "comes out" as conservative among their friends. (Dave Rubin said half his friends won't talk to him since he switched sides.) It is liberals who have become more and more extreme, per Pew Research, not conservatives. The ACU (American Conservative Union) rates Congress members by their votes on various bills, high ratings mean more conservative, low ratings mean more liberal. The total spread among Democrats was from 0-8%. That's it. The most flexible Democrat only voted the ACU's way 8% of the time. Among Republicans, the spread was from 56%-96%. No Republican voted 100% the ACU's way unless he was a first term Congressman. There are plenty of Republicans who are willing to compromise, or plenty of "centrists" in the Republican party, but there are NONE in the Democratic party.

3) We share the same goals and values. This is not true any more. Liberals want to see a fundamental transformation of this country into something that looks like Brazil. Conservatives want to see it remain a white-majority country. There is no compromising on this issue. Back in Kennedy's day, it was possible to be a Democrat and be anti-Communist. It was possible to be a Democrat and a flag-waving nationalist. It was possible to be a Democrat and support and uphold American values. When was the last time you heard a Democrat condemn communism? Or support nationalism? Or uphold American values? When Castro died, Democrats in America mourned, but when Castro came to power, Democrats opposed him. These are not the same people and they do not share the same goals and values as conservatives. When you don't share the same goals and values, there can be no compromise.

4) We share the same fundamental beliefs. This is patently false. Conservatives believe America is the greatest nation on earth, and that America is a force for good in the world. Liberals believe America is the worst nation on earth and that America is the main cause of all the world's evils, or more specifically, white male Americans are. Liberals invariably "blame America first". Whether it's racism, patriarchy, the environment, or whatever other ills there are in the world, liberals first want to blame America. On 9/11, there was a small but vocal group on the left who wanted to blame America for the attacks. There can be no compromising with such people.

5) There can be any compromise on moral issues. This is not true. Either you're for homosexual marriage or you're not. Either you're for trannies in the bathroom or you're not. Either you believe a man can be a woman just by wishing it or you don't. Either you're for a complete moral breakdown in this country or you're not. Liberals are for, conservatives are against.

 

..seems like "compromise", from the left's definition, is to agree with everything they say...

 

Those are not the issues at all, except for immigration. Instead, you listed what a tribal, partisan democrat can ONLY see as the issues. Your perception is not reality. In so far as you post, I recently posted this observation which bears worth repeating here...

With this said, sure, compromise is the only way out of this mess. And unless something changes, compromise is a pipe dream, for the reasons stated in what I quote from one of my other posts. For the root of the problem ,the root of this sickness of division is a root of the deficit in "character", in the wallowing in the base side of human nature, that so many of us do with great delight and enjoyments. The very soul of americans is in dire straits, and it is illustrated daily on every online political forum.

At this point, it is my belief that the only thing that can save us, is some catastrophic event that is so tremendous that it will force us out of this quagmire, and force the tribes to work together to overcome what cannot be called anything but certain destruction of this nation. It had to be such a shock, that it shocks us back into something resembling sanity, unlike what we are living in today. And sadly, that would involve a great loss of american life, of both tribes. A reality check that allows us to see the folly of the current division and fanaticism. Something that forces minds to put their houses back into order, and into something resembling sanity over this insanity, a creation of a reversion to the base side of human nature. A base side that prohibits people being rational, logical and reasonable, for the base side of human nature and human nature in general has always been much more powerful than logic, rationality and reason.

I do think that trump is willing to compromise, to give the democrats something they want in exchange for more than 1.7 billion in border security. For you got one think correct, in listing issues, and that is minimizing illegal immigration, instead of not doing anything that works, or funding border control sufficiently. And that is the fault of both political parties, who by their actions or rather inaction, do not want to minimize the flow of illegal immigrants.

In so far as race, gender and terrorism being major issues, these are not important issues, that get votes, from non democrats. That could change with a major terrorist attack like 911. Indeed democrats make an issue out of racism, but it is utter hyperbole, as they falsely see racists behind every tree in their imagined woods. I grew up in a racist South, and that was a racism problem, no doubt. So, these cries of rampant racism coming from the dems is pure imagination, for political reasons, or they have dropped the bar so low that anything is now seen through that filter.

The gender issue is only an important issue if you want men to use bathrooms that females use, even female children, and it is only a problem if you want our gov't to dictate how citizens use pronouns when it comes to gender, making it punishable by law if you do not use what these other so called genders want to be called, and it is up to 70 something pronouns the last time I heard. But other than that, this gender issue is not something that elects one person over the other. It's importance is hyperbole, coming from democrats, unless you consider the two areas I just mentioned.

Given that Rand Paul just stated that a recent poll showed that 69 percent of americans want us out of afghanistan, qualifies it as an important issue, and given that obama ran and won on the issue of getting us out of these perpetual wars, and the war mongering, makes it an issue of much more relevance than gender or the trumped up race issue.

Another issue that you ignored is what the scheme of globalism is doing to our middle class even as it favors our elites and the institutions that they own, like big corporations and big banking, as it harms average americans, even if they are too dense to see into it deep enough. That the only thing that matters economically is whether our elites can max out their own income, but at a great cost to american society and average americans who must work for a living, and having seen removed from our economic model the high valued added jobs that helped to create the largest middle class in world history, before the dems joined the GOP in shoving it up the arses of working americans, when it comes to prosperity via work. Trump got elected because it was perceived that he would do something about this economic injustice, that once upon a time the DP and FDR thought was important enough to do something about. And they did. That DP no longer exists.

Then there is the issue of single payer healthcare, something like Medicare for all americans as the major healthcare program. And yet you put gender and race over that? ha ha. Sounds like a modern establishment, corporate/banking democrat, what they would say.

 

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. - Barry Goldwater.

 

And what exactly is it that " the deep state government" is supposed to describe. As far as I can tell the real power behing the curtain is the rich and powerful who pick our candidates, write our laws set our tax system and decide our foreign policies.

 

Thanks.
I agree. It won't fix the problem. It will be a waste to build a mostly useless wall.

 

If you notice, tRUMP wasn't mentioned. Just the mostly useless wall.
I also notice you don't disagree, it won't fix the immigration issue.
So, no need to waste money.

 

Why build a wall if people will still hire illegals.
They will still come here.
Stop giving them jobs, and the issue can mostly resolve itself.
Simple concept really, and virtually no cost involved.

 

The topic of the thread as well my comment was of compromise.

Are you suggesting a compromise?

 

I know you agree more with those who cliam it would be useless.

It's good to hear that you, at least somewhat, agree that it would have some usefulness.

It gives me hope that there is a chance for progress.

 

If immigrants, illegal, aren't coming here, what would you or I need to compromise on?
Fix the problem. Don't put a bandaid on it. Which is all a wall would be, a bandaid.

 

Ok have it your way

You love trump but hate the trump voters who elected him because they want the wall

Its the same difference

 

"America is not split into two tribes, as we're sometimes told."

Yes, it is split in two by way of fake-Democratic brain-washing definition. The U.S. is arranged with a two-party system that encourages two extreme thinking such as Democrat-Republican. Far-Left or Far-Right. pro-American or anti-American. "With us" or "Against us". Love it or Leave it. Hero or Coward.

It is in this way that Americans are very easily dumbed down. Just look through the pages of this forum. What do you see? "Typical Dem!" Typical Republican!" The Dems this the Republicans that. The issues are not even discussed. It's just "Dem and Rep".

 

Unfortunately many democrats are typical leftwingers or outright socialists

 

I admire your use of the word "many". It shows that you can think. There's hope yet.

 

And I appreciste that pat on the head

It makes me wag my tail for joy

 

I never allow my lofty position in life deprive me of rubbing shoulders with every-day people and I find that expressing my appreciation for the successes of others makes the world go round that much smoother.

 

I disagree with the assumptions of the OP. I see the differences in 'tribes', as mere levels of conviction, or commitment to an ideology.

Imo, it is much simpler.

There are Americans, loyal to the Constitution, and principles of freedom, self rule, and Enlightenment values.

And, there are progressives, wanting to end the American Experiment and evolve us to a collectivist dream.

It is typically displayed in the public discourse as,
Liberals vs conservatives
Left vs right
Socialists vs capitalists
Nanny state control vs libertarian freedom
More govt vs less govt
Atheists vs theists
Anti gun vs pro gun
Pro abortion vs anti abortion
Mandated science vs the scientific method
Emotion vs reason
Love vs hate
Pelosi vs Trump
Globalism vs American nationalism
Evolution vs creation
More taxes vs less taxes
..and etc

There may be overlap, or crossover, in a few of the issues, but they are minimal. And levels of conviction or dogmatism do not create new categories, as the OP premises.

The issue before us is as it has always been:

Do we control ourselves, with a minimum of citizen run collective institutions, or do we let elites control us, for our own good?

Do we pick America, with its values of freedom and responsibility, or a Euro socialist fantasy?

That is the real choice before us.

 

You’re a peach

 

Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue. ~Barry Goldwater

 

Fair enough.

You have a right to be UNWILLING to compromise which is why those categories were provided in the poll.

FTR the focus of the OP is towards those who ARE willing to compromise.