Deal reached on avoiding government shutdown

Ok 1 more.

Again we get to see what it looks like when trump flinches.

 

What you mean is that apathy s growing

More people sitting on thevsidelines only mean fewer people making the decisions

You can call yourself a hero for being passive

But all you are doing is letting others do your job for you

 

If you dont know that hospital emergency rooms are overcrowded with illegal aliens or that communicable diseases ars increasing in the public schools that is your fault not mine

I am not here to be your private tutor

 

Its time for you to grow up

Mexico is not going to pay for the wall

 

Liberal trump haters cant snear at trump for getting less than he demanded to build the wall and then say he never compromises

 

Trump does get in your face when he talks and it drives libeals nuts

So I understand part of your personal hate for trump

But taking your anger out on America by enabling a foreign invasion is unforgivable

 

Fake news

 

Give Trump some credit for accomplishments. He showed China a thing or two by increasing the trade deficit and putting US soy farmers on welfare.

 

Bill didn't his first two years, that caused 1994 to happened with the Republicans gaining control of congress. It was the first time the GOP had control of the House in 40 years. Bill did govern more less towards the center his last six years. He learned and adjusted. Something that presidents after him haven't learned.

Governing as a centralist over his last six years, Bill's job approval never dropped below 50% for that entire time. His lowest for his last six years was 53% and highest 73%.

 

No, trying to bring about a viable third party is not apathy. The republicans and democrats have left middle Americans to fend for themselves. They're not interested in average Americans, they don't give an owl's hoot about them. All they care about is their extreme left or right faction. Middle America can go to Hades as far as they're concerned.

Both major parties know at the moment there is no place for those in the center, center left and center right, those in-between the two major parties to go except to choose one or the other. Middle America isn't doing that, their deserting the two major parties. We're voting against whom we are most angry at at the time.

In 1994 we were angry at Bill Clinton and the Democrats, we gave the congress to the Republicans and then elected a Republican as president in 2000. In 2006 we were sick and tired of Bush and the GOP controlled congress, we gave congress back to the Democrats and elected a Democrat in 2008. 2010, Obama and the Democrats made us angry by ignoring us and our wishes, we gave the House to the Republicans and in 2014 the senate following that up by electing a Republican president in 2016.

We now are angry at Trump for ignoring us and just playing to his base and not America. In 2018 we gave the democrats the house.

Bottom line, don't pay attention to us and we'll switch parties in a heartbeat. That is until one or the other party gets the message. Govern for America and not your party, not your agenda, but an American agenda. Forgo the hard left or hard right, move towards the center. Don't do this, we'll vote for the other guy.

Our vote isn't for sale or is it to be taken for granted. It must be earned. Today, Trump hasn't even attempted to earn it and has ignored us completely to placate his base. His base won't get him reelected. Won't even come close. This is a political reality neither party will acknowledge or admit to.

 

I understand your frustration

But I dont agree with your approach

If you are a lib you are only empowering the republicans

If you are a conservative you are empowerng democrats

But either way you are not governing

 

IDK how the hell he's up 5 points in approval since the BS SOTU. All I can say is WAY too many IDIOTS in 'murica. Won't be enough to save his 2020 chances unless the DNC collossally screws the pooch (which they are FULLY capable of, if they follow fools like Schumer and not attack dogs like Pelosi who I am not a fan of on policy but on politcal skills and savvy). I also don't think it will last, Trump will find a way to screw himself, if Mueller and SDNY does not.

It's just ludicrous how so often Trump is able to turn a clear sound defeat into a victory in the eyes of his base. Never seen a flim flam artist in Washington so able to sell the substancelsss koolaid and win with it.

 

Maybe empowering the Democrats for a few years, then empowering the Republicans for a few years and back to the Democrats and so on. Perhaps one of these days one party or the other will get the message, govern more or where the majority of Americans are. Somewhere in-between what both parties want or what their ideology is. If not, we will continue to switch back and forth. That is until, if possible a third party arises.

As for taking sides, we do this on an issue by issue basis. Not on a party vs. party basis or for or against a president basis. Let the two major parties do that. We're not robots who blindly follow, but pick and choose which issues to be for and which one's to be against. Who's president doesn't matter, who controls congress doesn't matter. If we're for something, whomever will have our backing on that single issue. If we're against something, whomever won't on that particular issue.

More and more Americans are becoming part of this group. The largest growing political block. Either the two major parties need to recognize this, adjust to it or we'll see a lot of switching back and forth in the years to come.

 

"You know what happens when congress builds something these days? They buy stock in the corporations who they give the bids to and approve every overage and overcharge to inflate the stock price.

Tell employers that they will go to jail if they don't start using legal workers and they will. No more illegal immigration debate ever again and we don't get billions stolen from us."

from my satirical piece end illegal immigration now

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/end-illegal-immigration-now.550281/

The reason I made it satirical is that republicans don't want an end to this "invading army marching across our borders". If they did they would be going after the criminals that are truly responsibly for this "invation". I've made serious threads in other forums and all the republicans did was squirm around and buck against it.

I have little love for most of what the democrats are but at least they're not wholly hypocritical. If this had been a democrat that came out trying to look like he was josie wells and then compromised republicans would be screaming flip flopper marching in the streets saying that these worms make our nation look weak to our enemies and that we are now in more danger etc. so I like to turn back in their faces.

 

Trump supporters do not blindly follow the old republican swamp rats in congress

They follow us

Or at least they follow when not sitting on their hands doing nothing

All of washington is fighting back against trump because he is one of the few 3rd party candidates to win an election

He is an example of an independent mind that does not uselessly sit on the sidelines and complain

 

Which republicans?

Be specific

 

Trump supporters blindly follow Trump. In fact Trump owns the GOP at this point in time. He's far from being an independent. Independents are the ones who gave Trump the White House, not his base or the Republican Party. But since the election Trump was lost quite a lot of independents who once supported him. One reason, he ran against Hillary which independents disliked more than Trump which in turn caused a lot of independents to cast their ballot for Trump. But their vote wasn't for Trump, it was against Hillary. They wanted Hillary to lose more than they wanted Trump to lose. It wasn't that they wanted Trump, they didn't. He was just the lesser of two evils. Yet 12% voted third party against both Trump and Hillary.

On election day Trump received 46% of the independent vote, today his very favorable and somewhat favorable among independents is down to 38%. Those independents who view him either very unfavorable 40% and somewhat unfavorable 14% is at 54%. That's bad news for Trump. Along those lines only 32% of independents want Trump to run for reelection, 48% do not.

I'm a numbers guy, not a partisan one or an ideologue. But those numbers are really bad news if Trump and his supporters. With a decent candidate nominated by the Democrats, it is my view Trump would have trouble getting 40% of the independent vote. Not because of his policies or stances on the issues, independents are for some, against some, for other reasons none of the Trump supporters will ever acknowledge.

Myself, I won't be voting for Trump in 2020. Will I vote for the Democratic candidate. Not if their candidate is another Hillary Clinton type or a far left wacko. I will if they offer a decent candidate however. If not, it's third party again. Much like Hillary saved Trump from defeat in 2016, only the Democrats and whom they nominate can save him in 2020. Trump and his supporters can't do that themselves, only the Democrats can help Trump win reelection. To do that, the Democrats need to come up with a candidate as much disliked as Trump is as they did in 2016.

 

I assume you are against the wall

Whats your position on the DACAs?

 

Pretty much all of them, it's been brought up in congress and in debates on the news that if you focus on the employers they will stop hiring ilegals and the illegals will self deport to which they either just ignored the point or nod and then go on to do nothing.

This is how it's done in countries that don't have an illegal immagrent problem. I saw a news report on illegal immagration laws around the world some countries put both illegal and employers in prison for 4 years which immedely ended that problem.

A grass roots movement that demands this real solution would be the answer but republicans would end up needing to fight the RNC and their illegal immagrent hiring donors which they would never do. That's because they want the finger pointing debate and not an end to this criminal activity. If it's an invation that's an even bigger problem an the problem needs to be solved now.

 

Show us a single Republican (or Democrats for that matter) pushing to go after employers of immigrants? Be specific. Then you'll see who is REALLY for border security and not just a win for King TangFace, and monument to his ego.

 

I don't give a dang one way or the other about the wall. What I’m against in this so called compromise is: That there is no funding for new border patrol agents above the current on board levels.

Does not fund the Administration's request for joint detention facilities.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel.

Retains Customs and Border Patrol Agents at current level. Should be more.

Reduces the number of border beds from 49,060 to 40,520. Should be more.

No funding for additional enforcement and removal field personnel. - that means no more ICE agents to deport people already in the country.

The bill gives over $1 billion for the Smithsonian.*

$3.4 billion in refugee assistance - $74 million more than last year.*

$4.4 billion in international disaster assistance - $100 million more than last year.*

* Doesn’t belong in this bill.

As for DACA, that was done via executive order and I firmly believe any president has the authority to remove, rescind and void any executive order from a previous president or abide by it. That only congress can legislate laws regarding immigration as per the constitution. The courts have overstepped their bounds on this one. I don't see how the courts can make an executive order the same type of law as if passed by congress in legislation. Outside of the constitutional issues, DACA is another one of those issues I kind of ambivalent on. Because of the constitutional issue, I'm on Trump's side on this.

 

It's less of a monument than it is one more way to steal from American's.

I am worried about all the republicans in here, they may fall down will try in to spin this or get knocked over trying to deflect. They may be laying on the floor hurt.

 

You are of little use to trump on any issue

Being a disengaged independent your moral support is meaningless

The demicrats control the house

And republicans hostile to trump and to border security control the senate

If you were a republican, and if more conservative-leaning indies were republicans, we could move the old swamp rats out of leadership if not replace them with a conservative republicans entirely

But indies are far too proud and stuck up to commit themselves to a political street fight with the entrenched powers that be

 

Do the 62 million trump voters not count as republicans?

There are many in the House Freedom Caucus and a number of republican senators who do want border security

So dont say none

 

Trump is represents what might be called the Tea Party movement which stands in opposition to the entire corrupt bipartisan Big Government ruling political class.
This is a very powerful mass movement that draws support from about 3/4 of Americans who are now very afraid of their own government.
The clandestine use of the 17 secret police /spy agencies to infiltrate and undermine Trump's campaign to rig the election frightens Americans. The clandestine operation of the secret police/spy agencies and the MSM to nullify the election and obstruct the executive branch frightens every American who has become aware of it.
Trump's base of support has hardened and expanded since his election. I see nothing that will stop that support from continuing to grow before the next election.

Even Trump's most militant political enemies are now warning that he will win reelection in 2020.

"Democrats also failed to capitalize on, and may have been damaged by, winning back control of the House of Representatives, but not the Senate, in the 2018 midterms. Mr. Trump proved effective, if characteristically vitriolic, in making a foil of the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi. Efforts to impeach the president mainly served to energize his base. Polling surveys suggested that wavering voters saw a Democratic Party more invested in humiliating the president than in helping them."
THE NEW YORK TIMES, How Trump Won Re-election in 2020, A sneak peek at the Times’s news analysis from Nov. 4, 2020., By Bret Stephens, July 26, 2018.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/opinion/trump-re-election-2020.html