Natural/inherent rights

This concept seems only to be prevalent in the USA and is often mentioned in defence of gun laws and the 2nd Amendment. It had me thinking about exactly what all of these said natural/inherent rights are.

If they are natural/inherent, then they always existed right back to Cave Man etc days. So, what were those rights way back then?

I guess you had a natural reaction (ergo, right) to defending at least yourself, and probably Family/Tribe. You also, it seems had a natural right to attack another for what he had that you wanted.

I guess blokes would say they had a natural inherent right to plant genetic seed, perhaps notwithstanding the natural or inherent rights of the females to defend themselves from an attack..

It could even be argued there was a natural or inherent right to as many sexual partners as one wished, given ones capacity to do so was totally unrestricted, naturally.

So......what are ALL of these natural or inherent rights?

And then...the kicker. How many of those natural or inherent rights have been codified in the USA Constitution? Surely, all of them, otherwsie there goes that defence to the 2nd Amendment. If they all aren't....what does that say about the concept?

 

I love when foreigners see fit to lecture us about our domestic affairs.

 

Come on Bob, let's not get side-tracked into that sort of silly stuff. My questions are very relevant and involves no lecture at all. It examines (as is intended) this claim of natural/inherent rights. So.....why not have a go at dealing with the OP rather than trying to dismiss me?

 

Not “domestic affairs” if these “natural rights” exist then they exist for all members of humanity

Or are there “natural rights” that only exist for white Anglo-saxons?

 

You would think that “natural rights” might relate to the UDHR (Universal Declaration of Human Rights) but that says nothing about “gun rights” and even the section on “right to life” is very contentious

 

Oooooooh!!!!! Now there, right there is a God given can of worms if ever I have seen one! Good point Bower Bird. That opens the OP right up. Yiss!

 

Well isn’t that interesting. Ya know our founders should have considered this and given it a little bit of thought.

Oh in fact they did discuss what natural rights are and what they were referring to. The document is kind of famous. Maybe you heard of it? It’s called the Declaration of Independence.

Here. Educate yourself. It’s a good read.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

 

Nothing new. You were one Year into your War of Independance (we got ours at the cost of not one life.....and you got yours through bloodshed and with French assistance.) And that Declaration preceded the 2nd Amendment, and (I have to say) is so full of political crap/selfserving hyperbole as we would know it to be these days. 13 States...nay....Reps of 13 States made some self serving mutterings about what God gave, and yet...I can't find anything granted by God which correlates.....other than (very loosely) in the Old Testament, and I'd love you to use that as your corner stone.

 

ShadowX.....where is your list?

 

Lol careful you’re showing your true colors and intent.

What does any of what you said have to do with the original post or my response? You asked what natural rights are referred to in the USA.

They are enumerated in the declaration. You have the natural right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. At its most base and primary right we have the right to life. So we have a right to protect that life. After that we have the right to liberty. So as long as your liberty doesn’t impede upon our right to life then we have the right to pursue liberty. And then you have the right to happiness. So as long as your happiness does not impede upon my life or liberty you have the right to happiness. Although this last one was originally intended to be a right to private property it was expanded to make sure tyrants cannot abuse the intent.

To protect those rights we have the right to bear arms. As evidenced in the declaration by their willingness to take on the worlds foremost superpower in combat. Unless you’re suggesting they were planning on doing that with scythes and pitchforks?

 

We all have natural rights.

Which don't exist except as an intellectual concept.

They're imbued by the creator no less.

Which also only exists as an intellectual concept.

And our intellectual concepts about stuff?

Rome burned.

 

No, I have no colours. I am an Aussie failing to undertand that stuff about what some sky fairy gave to just some Americans. I am genuine in my endeavours to demonstrate that your rhetoric does not match the facts of life in the USA, both past and present.

Yes I did, and all you came up with was the verbous pompous ill-defined "You have the natural right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Yet that seems not to be correct.....across the Board......like to your original 'Indians" and later, your black "Americans." You were very selective about to whom God gave these alleged rights, and that ought trigger some sort of questioning moment. Does it?

Gee...you are re-writing the whole thing with convenient caveats.

Heaven help me, just as the French helped the Yanks. Mate, really, I don't care about your fight with the Brits. Many of yours died in the process. Here, we just made them pretty much redundant other than for ceremonial bullshit.

 

Can you please list all of these 'natural rights?'

 

Your clear attack on how we secured our freedoms and the freedoms which we have suggest you have more of a motive than you’re admitting to.

Nevertheless. Neither Indians nor blacks at that point in time were considered men. They were considered savages. As such they weren’t granted the same consideration for rights.

That mindset has changed. So they are included. I’m not sure why that’s difficult for you to understand given how you stole your land from the aboriginals and attempt to placate your guilt by giving them money on a monthly basis.

How about you just go back and bow down to your English masters whom, whether you like it or not, you are a subject of. We had the sack to throw those shackles off at great cost to ourselves. But we would rather die on our feet than live on our knees.

 

Sure thing:

 

We disagree on the existence of natural rights but your point is spot on. Without belief and understanding in/of a creator there can be no such thing as natural rights.

It’s why I find it curious those who don’t believe in them moan the loudest about having rights to healthcare etc. when it’s antithetical to their overarching worldview. Definitely inconsistent.

 

If you're really sincere with your question, you should bother to read the Ninth Amendment to the US Constitution.

It says that the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED to deny or disparage other rights held by the people.

What that means on a practical level is that a complete and exhaustive listing of the rights of man is impossible.

 

It is not that difficult. The predominance of natural god given rights can be summed up as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not perfect but generally solid. Most of your examples are ridiculously wrong. And throughout history most natural rights have been taken away by more powerful people and governments.

 

Exactly. Thread is a straw man conflating natural rights with legal rights enumerated in the Constitution and codified in the statutes of various jurisdictions. Not surprised at all that leftists can't discern the difference, it's one way their political awareness and POV gets so ****ed up.

The whole point of "natural rights" as applied to the U.S. Constitutional Republic, is not a "list" or some invitation to metaphysical/theological debate, but a DISTINCTION between KING and CHURCH given rights and rights that attach to being human just because human.

 

Its not our fault nations outside of our own have decided to oppress their citizenry with said citizenry's approval.
You have natural rights, you've just ceded them.

There is not a racial component to natural rights. Seems you may be projecting.

 

I would say that free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of peaceful assembly, right to due process are all examples of natural/inherent rights. Most of what is in the Bill of Rights are examples of our inherent rights.

 

If you had to fight for these “natural rights” then they were not “natural”

And again our issue is that we are being told these “natural rights” apply to everyone everywhere when it comes to guns but it seems not to apply to everyone everywhere when it comes to anything else.

 

And most of that is in the UDHR what is not in there is anything to do with “gun rights” and even some sections, which you think would not be questionable, such as “right to life” are contentious

 

WE adhere to the UDHR and even more than America does as we do not have a death penalty ergo we are not truly breaching the “right to life”

 

I can take your life from you. Youd have to fight me for it. Is it not natural, therefore?

They apply, you've just ceded them to your governments for the illusion of safety as numerous of our citizens are doing and have done.