Natural/inherent rights

Okay...so there I mentally am....totally isolated. What "tools" do I have with me? None?

 

You're a human, so you can make tools.

 

Do I take my 21st Century knowledge with me?

 

So sorry, keep and bear arms doesn't have to spell "gun" to have meaning. The Second Amendment doesn't. Big boys and girls can use fancy words such as firearm, self-defense, and UDHR's "security of person".

Then why did you bring “paranoia about governmental crackdowns” up? Just an out of context strawman? Maybe "freedom" has you stumped.

 

Okay, this is the stupid question game, which I'm not a fan of. But okay, take your 21st century knowledge with you.

Now what? Are you going to reply with another stupid question? At what point does the stupid question game become just you refusing to understand something that everybody else understands?

Can you take a shovel? Can you take a spear? Can you kill some other idiot who finds your latrine with that spear?

Why did you ask me that question? You could have said some stupid socialist **** like "well what about all those people who I took my 21st century knowledge from? I think they deserve something for providing me with that before I went off into the wilderness".

I dunno, but the stupid question game really irks me. It's like you are looking for loopholes, but don't really care if you do or not, because there will be another stupid question when the answer doesn't provide you and your socialist ilk with an answer.

Why did you ask me that stupid question? Is there a point? I kinda doubt it, to be honest.

 

So, now I know The Rules. There I am...isolated....no food, no tools presumably with at least the clothes I am wearing, but armed with 21st Century knowledge. Gee......I'll think this over, but I doubt it would take me long to work out what to do next.

 

I think it would take you a lifetime to figure out what to do next, because no matter what you figured out, it would be incorrect.

See, that "I doubt it would take me long to work out what to do next" is the kicker. You aren't saying what that is for a very specific socialist revolutionary very bloody reason.

 

Nah. I want to think about it.

 

It shouldn't take long, according to you.

 

How 'long' is a piece of string?

 

How far can you push a rope?

Seriously dude. Why did you ask me whether you can use 21st century tech?

 

Is it not best that I understand all the parameters before I respond?

 

Where in the UDHR does it say anything about keeping and bearing arms?

 

Fair enough. It's a fair question, but irrelevant. I laid things out quite succinctly. You're in the forest, there's nobody around, and whatever you can do, you can do.

Those are natural rights. Do you have aliens giving you the ability to construct pyramids using nothing more than the force of some mental gymnastics? Okay, still the same thing goes

 

No, I exclude aliens. However, there I am in the middle of nowhere, and there are nasty beasts potentially all around, no food, no water, no shelter. In short I am stuffed. Stand by.

 

Natural rights don't mean that we can't work together. It just means that there are some boundaries to what we can do to each other.

So let's say that we are both there, and nasty beasts all around. Those natural rights don't disappear, but we can still work together, right?

The gist of it is that we can both go our separate ways. You go yours, I go mine, and nobody suffers. Or we can work together, but those basic rights remain.

Just because we might want to work together doesn't mean we have to do something the other wants. It's all voluntary.

 

Bugger off. I am there alone. Them's your Rules.

 

Then I bugger off, and those beasties you were worried about are your problem.

 

Ya see, natural rights don't mean we can't hang with each other. They just mean that whatever I can do by my lonesome are rights.

We can need each other, but that need doesn't mean I can't tell you to bugger off.

When you can figure that one out, you'll have discovered why we have things like the right to free speech, the right to defend ourselves, the right to private property...

Once you figure that one out, you'll understand natural rights.

We can use each other, but there are boundaries to where that relationship lies. No, you can't have my underwear! No, you can't say that there should be some equitable redistribution of my underwear, and NO, you can't tell me that I need to give up my ability to defend myself because you don't like knives or guns.

Just no.

That's when we have to start hunting each other. I'd rather not, but needs must.

My rights are more important than your life or mine.

 

We have a Bill of Rights. They do not.

 

Except for various procedural rights, to trial by jury for example, the Constitution does not grant rights, it guarantees rights. It obliges the government to protect those rights.

So I disagree with your term "afforded".

I very much agree with your last sentence.

 

Of course natural rights can be nullified.. You are born with the natural right to freedom and liberty. That doesn't keep the government from not letting you exercise those rights.

 

It can't guarantee rights until they are granted. To protect them, they have to be identified.
To me, a natural right is inherent and needs no protection. They occur naturally and applies to everyone equally.

 

Nor your next door neighbor.

 

They are not natural rights. They are rights people want and need backing from something to keep them.
Without the gov't or other body, you'd likely not have any of those rights.
For the gov't helps keep your neighbor from taking away those entitlements you want to call rights.