Islam and Violence

Muslims didn't commit violence "because Muhammad commanded it", but because it brought them what they wanted - lands and resources for their tribes in this world, and eternal life in the next. Simply put, violence paid off. Muslims will stop committing violence when violence will no longer pay off.

Jesus also taught "give Cesar", which binds Christians to their secular (and even non-Christian, since Cesar was a pagan at the time) rulers, and provides the needed excuse for violence as long as it's done for the "rightful sovereign".

Violence is ingrained in human nature, our survival depends on our ability to become violent when needed ("stand your ground" comes to mind). Religious beliefs that lead to violence are a consequence, not a cause, of our violent nature.

 

Well...neither Jews, nor Christians knew any better then. Muslims however are now facing relatively peaceful, advanced, civilized societies - not perfect, mind you, but concerned nonetheless with human rights and individual freedoms over the dreaded "greater good" of totalitarian systems. Mostly tribal Muslim societies are forced in such circumstances to jump over millennia of slow human evolution in order to compete in a rapidly changing world. Of course it's not going to happen in a decade, and of course it's going to create violent resistance to such a threat to a traditional way of life. How long will it take? Hopefully much less than it took Jews and Christians...

 

Yes, quite easy to agree with your most astute post. Both Judaism and Christianity were flexible enough to be able to change, and move away from what they were historically. And from what I can tell, we have some muslims today that are trying to do this, and speak of reform in islam, where it joins Judaism and Christianity in being amiable to secularism, having moved away from theocracy. But there are so few of these muslims doing this, and are meeting great resistance. And would hardly be safe if they were living in parts of the middle east, and would be guilty of apostasy.

 

Try living in Northern Ireland!

 

Muslims are human beings, and as such they have all that's needed to move away from what they are and flexible enough to be able to change, just like Jews and Christians did. It's happening.

Let's not forget that the first countries to ban full face covering in public places, long before France, were Turkey and Algeria. Muslim countries.

Muslim members of Parliament voted in favor of same sex marriages, in both UK and Germany. That's one example. There are LGBTQ friendly mosques as well.

Following in the footsteps of Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt, Saudi Arabia - the heart and hearth of the strictest literal interpretation of Islam itself - is moving away from Sharia. Baby steps, granted, but considering the place and importance of the Saudis in the Muslim world, those steps are likely to have major consequences for all Islamic countries.

Those who expect really big changes any day now will of course be disappointed. But changes are taking place - both ways, unfortunately, as Indonesia recently proved.

 

Sure it is happening, an may move ahead at the pace of tombstones. I saw the South here in the US move from full blown, entrenched racism, to a South that IMO has lost 90 percent of its racism, just in my lifetime of 78 years. Part of that change is due to my grandfather's and father's generation literally dying off, with later generations be integrated with black americans, and being taught that racism is stupid, hateful and just wrong. When I was a young man, I would have never believed what I have witnessed in regards to racism and how the South changed. But that probably happened faster than the needed reform of islam will happen. But I have little doubt that islam will reform.

 

Please tell us how Christianity promotes violence in northern Ireland.

 

Actually that is not correct.
Muslim violence has 2 major causes.
Robbery, and the booty collected.

Killing for Allah, until all the world is Islam.

Neither of these will stop.

 

By forming the basis on which society is segregated, you have catholic parts and protestant parts. Schools are segregated on religious grounds and the civil rights movement of the 60s was based on the persecution of Catholics because they were catholics.

 

The fighting in Northern Ireland is over land, not whose god is better.
The 5 northern counties ,
The Protestant British stole the land from the catholic Irish.
When the terror happens, it's not directed at religious entities, but after The English government.

There is no fighting between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The struggle or 'troubles' had always been confined to Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland there has been Republicans who do not believe Britain has the right to own Northern Ireland so they fought against English rule.

 

We are not talking about multiculturalism. We are talking about whether violence will fade from Islam and just how long that will take. It took both Christianity and Islam 2,000 years. i hope it won't take Islam another 700 years.

 

Christianity (you cannot divorce the big C from the little c) until the end of the 17th century.

 

No, that is not what you are talking about.
Are you claiming you will re-write the religion.
don't think so.

 

You asked how christianity promotes violence in NI, I gave it you, be careful what you ask for it might refute your agenda.

But it is clear that as usual you know nothing about the subject.

 

And I lived there, every thing is devided by religion, from your school to your football team.

 

Yes, we know there are Catholic schools and Catholic churches.

 

So funny every year you have violence around the orange marches, but apparently they have nothing to do with religion!

 

And protestant churches and protestant schools and catholic pubs and protestant pubs, in fact you can generally tell whether someone is catholic or protestant by their address. But as I said you do not want to hear the truth since it screws with your bias!

 

LOL
You can generally tell whether someone is catholic or protestant by their nationally.

 

In Northern Ireland their nationality is mostly British! Under the Good Friday agreement you can be British, Irish or both! You really have no idea do you?

 

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Because the Irish were predominantly Catholic and would never except Protestant rule! Added to which you have the persecution of the Catholics by Protestants, it is why we burn a catholic guy every november 5th! It used to be called "traitors Day"!

 

The difference you're ignoring is, that Southern racism wasn't taught by their religion, in fact Jesus taught against that. Muslim radicals act in accordance with the word and deed of the 'prophet', who supposedly got his revelations directly from God so they cannot change. I would say he got them from Satan but that's another thread.

 

I would call the Northern Ireland problems tribalism, not religious. Several of the leaders on both sides were agnostic. In no way did it compare with over one billion Muslims systematically oppressing women and infidels because of their Holy Book.

 

How very christian of you!